#  @dlancashi David Lancashire 🟥
David Lancashire 🟥 posts on X about saito, money, blockchain, bitcoin the most. They currently have [-----] followers and [----] posts still getting attention that total [-------] engagements in the last [--] hours.
### Engagements: [-------] [#](/creator/twitter::842988756/interactions)
- [--] Week [-------] +38,599%
- [--] Month [-------] +16,440%
- [--] Months [-------] -89%
- [--] Year [---------] +3,063%
### Mentions: [--] [#](/creator/twitter::842988756/posts_active)
- [--] Week [--] +750%
- [--] Month [--] +32%
- [--] Months [---] +261%
- [--] Year [---] -1.20%
### Followers: [-----] [#](/creator/twitter::842988756/followers)
- [--] Week [-----] -0.02%
- [--] Month [-----] +0.27%
- [--] Months [-----] +1.40%
- [--] Year [-----] +5%
### CreatorRank: [---------] [#](/creator/twitter::842988756/influencer_rank)
### Social Influence
**Social category influence**
[cryptocurrencies](/list/cryptocurrencies) [finance](/list/finance) [technology brands](/list/technology-brands) [social networks](/list/social-networks) [stocks](/list/stocks) [travel destinations](/list/travel-destinations) [countries](/list/countries) [vc firms](/list/vc-firms) [currencies](/list/currencies) [automotive brands](/list/automotive-brands)
**Social topic influence**
[saito](/topic/saito) #162, [money](/topic/money), [blockchain](/topic/blockchain), [bitcoin](/topic/bitcoin), [if you](/topic/if-you), [$saito](/topic/$saito), [multiversx](/topic/multiversx), [token](/topic/token), [decentralized](/topic/decentralized), [nfts](/topic/nfts)
**Top assets mentioned**
[Bitcoin (BTC)](/topic/bitcoin) [Saito (SAITO)](/topic/$saito) [MultiversX (EGLD)](/topic/multiversx) [Ethereum (ETH)](/topic/ethereum) [Solana (SOL)](/topic/solana) [Cardano (ADA)](/topic/cardano) [Alphabet Inc Class A (GOOGL)](/topic/$googl) [The Honest Company, Inc. (HNST)](/topic/the-honest)
### Top Social Posts
Top posts by engagements in the last [--] hours
"Fun challenge for anyone interested in getting started with BCH. [--] USD worth of free crypto if you can guess Alex's password. There is $20 in this medium article. The password for the transaction is what is in the picture that describes the process of reordering child before parent transactions. I only ask that you share what the password was. There is $20 in this medium article. The password for the transaction is what is in the picture that describes the process of reordering child before parent transactions. I only ask that you share what the password was"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1058792370970349568) 2018-11-03T18:45Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
""What is missing from the Blockchain Industry" - Patrick Dai Qtum ( suggestion: wait for the next blockchain panel ) #TechCrunchSZ"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1064760416889319424) 2018-11-20T06:00Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Nick is smart. Retweeting as an example: most devs can find a problem with decentralized work on first glance. Few look further and ask if their problems are unsolvable I suspect less hubris than exhaustion from the explosion of POS shitcoins. But a major issue holding ppl back @dlancashi Seems like a Sybil subnet routing to its own nodes could generate its work and pay itself fees back and forth to grind more and more control over time. Work in any real network follows a power law where a minority of nodes generate most work so I don't buy work is decentralized. @dlancashi Seems like a Sybil"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1236471321350946817) 2020-03-08T01:58Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"WHO Tedros claims threat of pandemic has become "very real" Dr. Tedros reminds me of the soundtracks that play on loop in casinos in Vegas Always escalating but never quite there"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1237074003396681728) 2020-03-09T17:53Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@joni_koskimaa Neither approach is viable. If you censor honest work your cost-of-block-production rises. If you attack the lottery you burn money. Saito delivers a quantifiable cost-of-attack that holds in majoritarian conditions. Attacking Saito is never profitable"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1309407695137636352) 2020-09-25T08:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@joni_koskimaa The real issue is that anytime you're forced to grapple with the cost of reorganizing a chain you retreat to claiming that it is impossible to prevent attacks ergo all systems are equally vulnerable. This is simply not true. Huge difference between 50% and 150% cost-of-attack"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1309426131267973125) 2020-09-25T09:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Saito is going to make Polkadot absolutely massive in the browser. And with no Infura problem. Meanwhile every other blockchain is centralizing around its network providers or justifying their not sharing data / fees with the chain. TOP UPCOMING PROJECTS GRANTED BY @web3foundation PART [--] More and more projects are granted to enhance the @Polkadot ecosystem. And here is a list you should focus on. https://t.co/jENI2oH8ID TOP UPCOMING PROJECTS GRANTED BY @web3foundation PART [--] More and more projects are granted to enhance the @Polkadot ecosystem. And here is a list you should focus on."
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1348898083275419649) 2021-01-12T07:42Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Upcoming Polkadot Cryptocurrency - What Is Saito Web3 Grant Polkastart. via @YouTube https://youtu.be/PuSuxD5HuWg https://youtu.be/PuSuxD5HuWg"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1384929886687617030) 2021-04-21T17:59Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@do_crypto @GGGEORGEGGGG @CryptoExpert101 @SaitoOfficial @unmarshal think of ETH as collapsing the L2 app onto the L1 network by forcing all of the L1 nodes to feed every tx into L2 EVM. security always dependent on fee-throughput but that is now trapped by execution bottleneck and non-smart-contract uses have to deal with EVM overhead"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1457927907993526277) 2021-11-09T04:27Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@pronewchaos @GGGEORGEGGGG @anchor_protocol when people recommend stuff we take a look but i don't think we would have the bandwidth to take this on anytime soon"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1460613375726030849) 2021-11-16T14:19Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@cobyism @SaitoOfficial @cdixon @0xluminous typo - engorge. :)"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1474213894482587650) 2021-12-24T03:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaskiaCrypto @Trajectory117 @WesleyBKress @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous @derekhodl There are many examples but they can be hard to see at first because we've normalized that all this work just happens for free on "decentralized" networks. A bit like thinking candy is free on Halloween bc houses are decentralized. Can we decentralize the Hershey factory"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1476199158016987140) 2021-12-29T14:31Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Rob48146087 @Lawwrenc that's Polkastarter @Rob48146087 - anything larger would be disproportionate to the value provided. whatever point you were trying to make that's the actual token distribution right there. https://etherscan.io/token/0xFa14Fa6958401314851A17d6C5360cA29f74B57B#balances https://etherscan.io/token/0xFa14Fa6958401314851A17d6C5360cA29f74B57B#balances"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1481204255675809796) 2022-01-12T09:59Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Zigadeebong @Trottersintern1 @SaitoOfficial Which app are you talking about"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1499605241414647815) 2022-03-04T04:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Zigadeebong @Trottersintern1 @SaitoOfficial Have you tried the arcade https://saito.io/arcade https://saito.io/arcade"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1499610966052376577) 2022-03-04T05:01Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Passapol_J @brickblockcube yes they will eventually have to pay a fee. the applications should be able to plug into revenue generation as well. if pushed to the extreme the difference is that revenue-generation mechanisms in Saito are open because the chain is open. and on-chain costs are lower bc open"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1513384271045853190) 2022-04-11T05:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@barnabemonnot @smsunarto @gakonst @hdevalence @JaEsf Saito guarantees openness so there are no Lamport-style closure mechanisms validator sets and the discouragement/halting attacks they enable. Fee routing allows nodes to produce blocks and determines percentage of block reward collected. [--] pager here: https://wiki.saito.io/en/consensus https://wiki.saito.io/en/consensus"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1530839308696858625) 2022-05-29T09:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@_Migraine____ What i saito's inflation rate there is no block reward so zero. in reality mildly deflationary due to hash variance + gt system. how much of it is held by venture capitalists waiting to sell i'd imagine a smaller chunk than Satoshi's coins: https://etherscan.io/token/0xfa14fa6958401314851a17d6c5360ca29f74b57b#balances https://etherscan.io/token/0xfa14fa6958401314851a17d6c5360ca29f74b57b#balances"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1532325194656002048) 2022-06-02T11:36Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JiriSvejda1 @THECHAINMEDIA @SaitoOfficial @iLIkeCryptoDuh @sean97453953 @__recursion__ @maxime_leman @swaptoshi @GGGEORGEGGGG beautiful"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1533490135626842113) 2022-06-05T16:45Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Everflow35441 @SaitoOfficial We have an island settling game Feedback would be really helpful in improving it. :) https://saito.io/arcade https://saito.io/arcade"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1540192605958737922) 2022-06-24T04:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"A short thread -- let's try to explain the economic problem Saito solves in very simple terms. POW and POS don't pay for everything they need. They incentivize participants to "privatize gains and socialize losses" - do the paid work and let others cover the unprofitable work @WesleyBKress @dlancashi @richard_parris True dat. I can't claim to totally see it yet but the dawn has arrived thanks to Richard and David. It requires going down levels beneath the usual POS vs POW paradigm. @WesleyBKress @dlancashi @richard_parris True dat. I can't claim to totally see it yet but the dawn has arrived"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1549940406087188480) 2022-07-21T02:12Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@michaelcrupto @brickblockcube @atxmj @koeppelmann @richard_parris Supply isn't inflating. Really. And there is no block reward by design: inflation would subsidize attackers and enable fee recycling attacks. U cant charge for block production and then give out free money to block producers"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1572136120774959104) 2022-09-20T08:10Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@brickblockcube @off99555 @Justin_Bons @allicnac It's impossible to push past "could work" in most cases but there's significant progress when discussion happens with people at least recognizing they're hemmed in by the requirement for non-commercial provision and that "McDonalds is incentivized to run the network" isn't true"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1580794195278974976) 2022-10-14T05:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@brickblockcube @off99555 @Justin_Bons @allicnac Scaling is anywhere and everywhere a function of bytes-across-network. Keep costs low and we keep scale low. Keep scale low and we keep network effects low. we "could" have low-throughput money with low network effects but winner more likely to be highest network effect token"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1580795204793438209) 2022-10-14T05:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JP_5th_Yonkou @SaitoOfficial we're working on it Click on any username/address and you can "add contact". That will get them into your sidebar chat-manager w/ secured comms and will soon also get a direct P2P connection Implementation under dev but reliability coming. fetch tweets from peers directly etc"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1590548214687862786) 2022-11-10T03:33Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@translator0000 @CryptoNationIN @SaitoOfficial Openness is non-excludability. Anyone can start running a network node or use the network. This makes it impossible for anyone to tax or exclude others and also profit from doing so. Lowest cost network provision without 3rd party monetizing network effects"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1592844162210344960) 2022-11-16T11:36Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Saitodler @Joncole23 @takegreenpill @EmersonDickie @SaitoOfficial I'd be happy to chat"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1593529302448222210) 2022-11-18T08:59Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@t0lvek @SaitoOfficial Usability and teaching this game is a huge challenge. Thanks for playing. Suggestions welcome"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1593694177446940673) 2022-11-18T19:54Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Trottersintern1 @SaitoOfficial javascript would be the winner you can use it to build modules but also hack around with the consensus-layer if you want. it'll be easier to build modules in other languages later but everything running in userland on is JS currently. http://saito.io http://saito.io"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1600055247472590849) 2022-12-06T09:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@iLIkeCryptoDuh @SaitoOfficial i have never actually played Zelda"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1600697396153192448) 2022-12-08T03:42Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Nick63586419 @SangueB77037439 @udiWertheimer @DylanLeClair_ You should look into Saito Nick. At minimum if you want more volunteers the easiest way to accomplish that is pay them. Saito's dust mining approach to chain history is also clearly a better approach for SOV coins than adding tail emissions/inflation. https://x.com/_Biotechmcclain/status/1526149940895854592 $Saito rebroadcast (blockchain cycling) fixes this. If Bitcoin had rebroadcast fees it could remain limited at deflationary [--] million but would solve scaling AND survive from only fees."
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1601118937206640640) 2022-12-09T07:37Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"The only time other blockchain devs talk about collective action problems is when they're coming up with justifications / excuses not to solve them. see: "The eventual solution will be to not care how big / expensive / parasitic it gets." - Satoshi Everyone wants to ride the bicycle - No one Wants to Put in the Work The Free-Rider Problem - A Major Challenge for Blockchain Tech How the Lack of Incentives is Impeding the Growth Openness and Security of Decentralized Networks Lets dive in. https://t.co/3IoUsdGvZE Everyone wants to ride the bicycle - No one Wants to Put in the Work The"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1612749754336972801) 2023-01-10T09:54Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Saito is how a free market works You get to take out what you put in. Everyone Wants to Ride The Bike - No one Wants to Put in the Work. But What if Everyone Who Rides the Bike is Incentivized To Do The Work Imagine What That Blockchain World Would Look Like. Saito Network Solution to The Free-Rider Problem. Lets dive in. https://t.co/CZYHampLU9 Everyone Wants to Ride The Bike - No one Wants to Put in the Work. But What if Everyone Who Rides the Bike is Incentivized To Do The Work Imagine What That Blockchain World Would Look Like. Saito Network Solution to The Free-Rider Problem. Lets dive"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1613529693113978883) 2023-01-12T13:33Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Once An Idea Has Taken Hold Of The Brain It's Almost Impossible To Eradicate. 🤯 This is what happens after people take the 🟥 💊. Understanding Saito is a steep 🏔 to climb. But once you reach the summit everything is clear. ❯ Join us in spreading the 🟥💊. #LFGrow https://t.co/vS5antFAPO Once An Idea Has Taken Hold Of The Brain It's Almost Impossible To Eradicate. 🤯 This is what happens after people take the 🟥 💊. Understanding Saito is a steep 🏔 to climb. But once you reach the summit everything is clear. ❯ Join us in spreading the 🟥💊. #LFGrow https://t.co/vS5antFAPO"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1621437649172189186) 2023-02-03T09:17Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@nikete @0xBrMazoRoig peers are identified by cryptographic keys so you can't present yourself as someone you're not. you can try to insert yourself into the network and add claims to payout from the routing lottery but doing so adds routing hops and impoverishes both your peers"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1621853407207391233) 2023-02-04T12:49Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@nikete @0xBrMazoRoig the block producer on your inside is competing with others to include this TX for the routing-payout and you just made them 2x slower producing blocks if at all. the same TXs you are routing to them will confirm on another routing path faster"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1621853703790821380) 2023-02-04T12:50Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Sybil attack involve attackers replacing an expensive form of work that has positive externalities with a cheap one (creating a new keypair) that makes them more money. value extraction attack which is how Saito stops it. The attacker can use these fake identities to manipulate the network's consensus mechanism and compromise the integrity of the system. This can lead to various forms of abuse such as double-spending or spreading false information in a social network. This is a serious problem. The attacker can use these fake identities to manipulate the network's consensus mechanism and"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1627654738727821312) 2023-02-20T13:01Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@Justin_Bons @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial There's a third option: transaction rebroadcasting simultaneously prunes dust eliminates a tragedy-of-the-commons problem and allows for much larger blocks and fee throughput as overall chain size becomes static. advantage over "rent" is that price is set by market not devs"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1636192950307680256) 2023-03-16T02:29Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @JorgeStolfi @MukkingAbout I rather liked "Saito is more than an advance" the based pro-blockchain Stolfi offering the historical perspective"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1644678131503230976) 2023-04-08T12:26Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@MukkingAbout @JorgeStolfi @sinoTrinity @DerekBoberic The hilarious thing is that he's made the same mistake here he made as a kid building hydrolysis engines -- treating the cost of system operation (energy there cost of attracting fee-flow here) as non-existent. So he literally hasn't learned anything in [--] years or whatever"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1645247701213388800) 2023-04-10T02:09Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"Fascinating to read this thread on sybilling by @DennisonBertram. Half of the commenters think the problem is solved by mechanisms that add closure & half think it is unsolvable. But no trivial number of ppl pointing out Saito solves w/o closure. I guess the word is getting out. @DennisonBertram Saito is Sybil Proof🟥 "Something fascinating happens when an attacker sybils a routing-work blockchain. Whereas all the fees in the block were previously potential income to the attacker the lottery is now taxing their wallet directly" https://t.co/GhvwU2Wr3t #Saito $Saito https://t.co/tXvxtOSku6"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1649241367904948227) 2023-04-21T02:39Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@kuixihe @_0xNinja_ @maddykrish1984 @andrarchy @WeleleTumblr @lionmhh78 @Blockworks_ @koinosnetwork @SaitoOfficial Misplaced criticism - Saito continually tops the charts for dev activity and has a vibrant community of users & applications. but - yes - everyone should understand the incentive-layer problems that Saito fixes as otherwise we end up with unsolvable economic attacks/issues"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1650120631277748224) 2023-04-23T12:53Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@atxmj @mira_hurley @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial Nano is designed for token transfers but from the Saito perspective that limits it to volunteer scale because big-data isn't something volunteers will do. So there's a fundamental difference in usage and an implied difference in where free-fee transfers get positioned on stack"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1650345983317020673) 2023-04-24T03:48Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@atxmj @mira_hurley @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial This video attempts to explain the underlying economic problem and how it leads to only [--] categories of solutions: Nano is a solution in the 1st category while Saito is a solution in the 3rd category. Avoiding the 2nd category is the most critical thing https://www.youtube.com/watchv=C81D6B9sgH8 https://www.youtube.com/watchv=C81D6B9sgH8"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1650346810047885312) 2023-04-24T03:51Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi Hashing algorithm. Faster and I believe more secure than SHA256. Better in a few other ways too"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1652943504254074882) 2023-05-01T07:50Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"Want to raise the visibility of the Saito Arcade The folks at Ethereum actually have a 100% on-topic thread and deserve to learn about all of the amazing things happening at the Saito Arcade https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1375gb0/which_blockchain_game_would_you_describe_as_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1375gb0/which_blockchain_game_would_you_describe_as_a/"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1654115493303975937) 2023-05-04T13:27Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@a_vaunt @LoganJastremski @fuserleer It's not that sharding is a BS solution. I like Dan and the Radix community tbh. Also Near. The issue is that the problem is tightly defined: [--]. scale = total bytes throughput [--]. decentralization = num machines processing those bytes [--]. security = cost of attack"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1658459393917333505) 2023-05-16T13:08Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaitoOfficial i don't think this is a really good analogy to be honest. it frames the problem as difficulty / cost of bidding but it's really about preventing fee-circularity"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1658686512140279808) 2023-05-17T04:10Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaitoOfficial if there's an analogy to blockchain buried here it might be that POW and POS are like auctions where you have to burn your money to bid at all so the winner of the bid gets the item but the others lose their money. which means they can't spend that bidding on other items"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1658686895260602368) 2023-05-17T04:12Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaitoOfficial Saito fixes this -- if you lose your bid for the painting you can spend the money on another item and team up with others to buy it too. so the same amount of money is chasing fewer items increasing the cost to the attacker of the next bid he has to outspend 100% of the room"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1658687828677771265) 2023-05-17T04:16Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"personally convinced the biggest reason Saito is hard for people to grasp is that they don't understand Bitcoin. second biggest is that people struggle with probabilities - and multiple variables are in flux when nodes add a hop (amount to collect chance of collection etc.)"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1661588489052520449) 2023-05-25T04:22Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi t's what struck me most about the convo with @jorgestolfi tbh. non-idiot who spent 10+ years on Bitcoin but still didn't realize its incentive structure taxed attackers w/o identifying them. thus never thought to ask "can any such tax hold above 50%""
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1661612105009889280) 2023-05-25T05:56Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JorgeStolfi @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial your argument from authority is hollow - this is an econ problem. where did you do your grad coursework in econ mine was at Berkeley. and you lost credibility as a academic when you switched from "this issue is impossible to solve" to "solving it does not prevent all attacks.""
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1661926576311914496) 2023-05-26T02:45Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JorgeStolfi @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial you aren't qualified doubly-so if you think calling for regulation means someone thinks something is worthless. wts imo Roubini is correct - 99.9% of cryptos are shit economic mechanisms designed by computer scientists who don't understand collective action problems"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1662630070362734592) 2023-05-28T01:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JorgeStolfi @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial No-one will confuse you as someone capable of understanding Saito Jorge You showed your limits when you insisted it was impossible to tax attackers w/o identifying them requiring an ELI5 explanation of how BITCOIN accomplishes this by lowering ROI to work-orphaning"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1662631076362330114) 2023-05-28T01:25Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@breadoflifer @NNovaDefi one of the questions we're wondering is why people chill out on the Arcade to play games when the same functionality should be there in RedSquare. think a lot of the reason is that usage goes up with polish and RS needs refactor especially to improve curation + content"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1663072290580627461) 2023-05-29T06:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@brickblockcube @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial justin is a good person. he'll figure it out"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1663747668647231493) 2023-05-31T03:22Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@page_analyst @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris not sure how we can help. reach out anytime"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1666966154613760002) 2023-06-09T00:31Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@allicnac @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris thank you for digging into the substance and encouraging others to do so as well. if you have any questions feel welcome to hit up richard or i anytime"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1667442984437293056) 2023-06-10T08:06Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@AnamarijaML @Devrim992 @talesoftao @SaitoOfficial see you in six months"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1670763195336904705) 2023-06-19T11:59Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@bragoatski @SaitoOfficial Same as yesterday and day before etc. End of summer"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1673836081253601280) 2023-06-27T23:29Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@WurmRobsch @ThetaWillMoon @thetainvestor Perhaps this is the time "to learn as much as you can about BTC" so that you aren't on the backfoot struggling to explain it to people who do :)"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1677341813039042560) 2023-07-07T17:16Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"this is. true. Saito is better suited for computational programming as well because arbitrary data can be added to the transaction and on-chain / off-chain message just works"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1677521347617116160) 2023-07-08T16:13Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"This image reminds me of [----]. Always loved that film - one of its themes being the impossibility of true communication (the lovers all speak different languages) The way Saito defines and then solves fundamental problems is a bit like that. We just speak a different language. 🔴 Scalability Without Trade-Offs Saito is a Layer [--] blockchain offering a scalable permissionless data network for decentralized applications. ⛓ It addresses key market failures with a unique consensus focusing on financial incentive alignment for network scalability. 🛠 https://t.co/B3EiilvkeA 🔴 Scalability Without"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1680815337208676355) 2023-07-17T05:42Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@BuildingWeb4 @VitalikButerin @VladZamfir do you want to go through the incentive misalignments here first of all inflation is a type of fee. if you have inflation you might pay for validators but you certainly weaken SOV utility. which means the utility has to come from data/network throughput"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1682962083942658048) 2023-07-23T03:53Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@BuildingWeb4 @VitalikButerin @VladZamfir if we've added the ability of the network to make a payout funded by inflation then the income from running nodes is no longer zero. either there is income for network providers or not. the form in which users pay the fee is irrelevant"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1683002972769509378) 2023-07-23T06:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@badenglishtea The public sale was a Polkastarter marketing activity. There has never been a public sale of the type you are thinking. What you are seeing is fair launch of an actual revolutionary network w/ consensus mechanism that solves fundamental problems without technical trade-offs"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1684757247447232512) 2023-07-28T02:46Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"it's 100% true that people are clueless on Saito the question is when that changes and how Sometimes I think $SAITO is so brilliant that people just cant fathom what it actually is I guess we have to accept that the majority is close minded until they are not. https://t.co/jHjvx3BRcg Sometimes I think $SAITO is so brilliant that people just cant fathom what it actually is I guess we have to accept that the majority is close minded until they are not. https://t.co/jHjvx3BRcg"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1684874350862991360) 2023-07-28T10:32Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial re: existence of nonce [--]. you need the golden ticket to include the information about the key of the miner so that the solution cannot be stolen in transit. i.e. routing node cannot swap in its own public key and claim to have found the winning solution itself"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685474192563871745) 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial [--]. if you don't use a nonce every publickey will generate [--] hash each block which incentivizes them to brute force keyspace to increase chance of winning. you can only solve this in designs that limit who can participate - like POS - where closure adds set-participant attacks"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685474964995297280) 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial [--]. remember that the randomness in the hash is not just binary (can you produce a block) as in POW but used entirely as it picks a winning TX and then winning routing node from within that transaction. i.e. multiple valid solutions will exist that will pay different routers"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685475535496019968) 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial having randomness in the input to the payout hash allows Saito to keep the cost-of-payout properties of mining while ADDING a punitive combinatorial selection tax ("does this ALSO pay the attacker") attackers can only overcome the statistical bias of the latter w/ more hashing"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685476810283421696) 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial i don't personally see the complaint about "rare" as a word being used to describe a winning hash solution. especially on a ELI5. if there's a problem here it's that the language / concepts of mining dominate how people think about blockchain and prevents them from understanding"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685478716896657408) 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial if you can design a system without a nonce that would be very interesting. it might be a step towards a better version of POS. my gut feeling is that we'd run into problems around keeping cost-of-fee-recapture asymmetrically punishing for attackers. but this might be wrong"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685479852466659329) 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @SaitoOfficial please see response in other thread note also that without a nonce block producers can "look-ahead" to see likely payout hashes available and game the way TXS are ordered in blocks to increase chance they are paid as winning router"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685484284726116352) 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial i agree with you but will add that one of the problems with non-block approaches is that their devs generally assume the problem is "consensus" rather than cost-of-attack protections in open networks and they usually hurt universal TX ordering needed for many L2 use cases"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685692185646407680) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial openness is the most valuable characteristic because it is what protects against the formation of cartels and network monopolies that profit from taxing access to the network effect. people think they can safely add closure as long as they have "decentralization". they can't"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685719708358852608) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial nothing can tell you if data has been altered. even if you add all kinds of closure mechanisms and leverage them so validators can vote on "finality" you can't be sure there aren't multiple chains with finality worse their incentives lead to collusion / cartelization"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685721919696621568) 2023-07-30T18:43Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial what Bitcoin gave us was the promise that as long as the network security conditions held (an attacker did not have 50% of network hashpower) anyone forging a validating version of consensus would have needed to burn X to produce/extend it. want more security wait more confs"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685722720389185536) 2023-07-30T18:43Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial In the real world it is certainly possible to. yes it's trivial with trusted third parties if that were true then there is no point in building a cryptocurrency you use a cryptocurrency when trusted third parties are not acceptable and Saito doesn't have them"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685730978382446592) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial the problems that bad solutions are intended to solve don't "re-appear" in the absence of those compromises because the problems are solved more elegantly with better solutions that don't require closure there are no sybil attacks on Saito and no more spam issues than POW or POS"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685733253876273152) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial Routing work adds cryptographic signatures to the network layer. You are describing problems with POW and POS which do not take this approach which is one of the reasons they have zero informational basis to identify and pay for useful infrastructure"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685733991335522304) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial yes - the core reason the token even matters is that it allows the network to incentivize its own provision which eliminates the need for an owner (trusted third party) whose power of excludability stems from their status as the network funder/operator"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685738177917771776) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I wouldn't dispute that adding closure / trusted third parties affords a range of solutions to perceived problems. I'm not sure I'd agree that these provide "greater defense" as most "protections" created by governance mechanisms creates symmetrical vulnerabilities"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685740230505320449) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I suppose this would need to be discussed on a case-by-case basis. If it were true that governance mechanisms did allow for "greater defense" a straightforward question would be how we can use them to achieve a higher cost-of-attack than Saito does"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685740696119214080) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I'm not sure what you mean by data integrity in the context of L1 if you don't mean verifying a chain is valid. In all L1s full trustlessness requires validating full blocks but lite clients can verify portions using SPV-style merkle proofs etc. did you mean something else"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685741782993338368) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial having the mining "puzzle" in a transaction allows for some creative kinds of lite-chain validation where cost-of-chain-extension can be validated even if the transactions themselves are not scrutinized. data integrity guarantees are otherwise essentially the same as POW though"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685742357357203456) 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial Saito Consensus isn't POW and doesn't have these problems. The issue isn't the existence of hashing (abstractly) Concentration is dangerous in POW because latency weakens the 1-CPU-1-VOTE guarantee which makes larger miners more profitable per dollar of hash than smaller miners"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685847401033244672) 2023-07-31T02:58Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I agree that there are solutions to the former. Most involve adding closure (leader selection round-robin block production). Saito solves the former by having producers "collect" work instead of "generate" it so we get a natural round-robin dynamic. No closure needed"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685849202688155648) 2023-07-31T03:05Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial it is more difficult to see how Saito makes headway against malicious majorities but Saito improves tolerance from (n-1 / 2) to (n-1 / 2) + x where x is a positible variable that increases with the depth of the attack on the chain"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685849594540994560) 2023-07-31T03:07Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial this is done by asymmetrically redistributing tokens from attackers to non-attackers every time they orphan a block (i.e. produce a block that has less efficient routing paths than the pre-attack network would have produced on average) it is hard to explain on Twitter"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685849972586213376) 2023-07-31T03:08Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial in both cases we're dealing with fundamental solutions that eliminate problems by fixing incentives. - orphaning blocks stops being profitable - concentration doesn't give an advantage in getting paid fixing the incentives is how we solve w/o closure because attacks have cost"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685850601194950657) 2023-07-31T03:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I don't think Saito is at a disadvantage to any other network in this area. But I'm not sure of the exact concern so can't really elaborate. it IS nice to finally have an incentive for nodes to share this sort of data although that's more of a 3rd or 4th order difference"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685851768096428032) 2023-07-31T03:15Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial you're right Nate -- I commented somewhat reflexively and didn't put 2-and-2 together on who you were. also don't mind your opinions on network development or business strategy at all. think the easiest red pill for ETH folk will be ATR and that we can help them"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685871712754421760) 2023-07-31T04:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial @ConveyorLabs i think things are going well tbh. tx volume is growing as apps improve so would want to see problems with social + gaming + comms focus before thinking about strategic changes would like to see other networks understand ATR as it can help them and help us in turn"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685873931226595328) 2023-07-31T04:44Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial @ConveyorLabs Saito can be an application layer for other L1s. don't think that's something we can "position" for other than by building our own community and platform and then people realizing that it is plug-and-play for their own networks by adding a file or two"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685881294054719488) 2023-07-31T05:13Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial @ConveyorLabs to me what really matters is your point about economic fundamentals. fixing the incentives gives us a truly scalable permissionless network. we don't know if this is valuable or provides real utility but it is historically unprecedented and everything else is web2 in comparison"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685882101600751616) 2023-07-31T05:16Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial Can you describe the specific attack vector you are concerned about using Bitcoin as a reference"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1685975089794387969) 2023-07-31T11:25Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Pixie has had a rough night of running around meowing at 3am"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1686526276377640960) 2023-08-02T16:34Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial it's the ability to create this asymmetrical TAX that allows us to fix the underlying incentive problems in POW/POS. in POW the tax exists because expected ROI is lower if you build anywhere but longest chain but falls apart once you have 50% hash. In Saito it never falls apart"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1686567406670610432) 2023-08-02T02:39Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial attackers: - have to spend money to outcompete honest chain - have to orphan honest blocks the first requires spending their own money the second requires accepting dismal lottery payouts. costly randomness needed to enforce #2"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1686568410694692864) 2023-08-02T02:43Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @cybercapital @SaitoOfficial I agree with you - just acknowledging it is hard for people to deal with paradigm shifts when filtered through financial motivations (see Innovator's Dilemma) Justin's money is not needed. His ability to think is valuable if he cares about L1 scaling which I believe he does"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1686641413512134656) 2023-08-03T02:54Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@cryptoleo88 @SaitoOfficial @globalnodeo @JackJWard @holdsaito @Saitodler @wickedinvestor @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon @VajraTalon @0xG24 ping me with your TG account you might have been inadvertent collateral in reflexive anti-spamming"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1686742972610547712) 2023-08-02T14:17Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial thank you Nate. ❤ legit appreciated - very hard to get people to think about the fundamentals this way - every push helps"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1687324852896800768) 2023-08-04T04:49Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@MukkingAbout @SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ Problem is that the exponential gain we get from the combinatorial difficulty of targeting multiple payouts only works if attackers must pay the FULL hashing costs every do-over. Can't allow them to keep 5/8 but redo the 3/8 that pay others. Or brute force just the last hash"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1687660564166889472) 2023-08-05T10:51Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial It's the other way. Thanks for asking about perceived problems and thinking about the answers. It is hard to have conversations about fundamentals. Most of the credit is yours"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1687775806049894400) 2023-08-05T10:41Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial this might be more readable as it is javascript - is older file as we've just updated the JS client to use embedded-rust / WASM: block.validate() runs validate() on all its txs which similarly validates its slips"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1687794160940789760) 2023-08-05T13:30Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial the comparable rust files are here: / / Rust architecture is more complicated as threads are needed to connect these core files / objects to the OS or browser-layer WASM API"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1687794766782869504) 2023-08-05T13:30Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial if you have a malicious actor able to flip bits on your hard drive no piece of software in the world will secure you against that protecting against God-tier attacker who can do that isn't within the scope of the security guarantee offered by any network"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1687942605555048448) 2023-08-05T21:44Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial Permissionless has no concept of bad or good actors. Throw it out. Any discrimination on assumption of intent violates equal treatment / openness properties. Is why permissionless solution forces attackers to outspend honest nodes and become highest paying users"
[X Link](https://x.com/anyuser/status/1688160658779738112) 2023-08-06T12:10Z [--] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial As for the rest all you have is cost of attack. Reorg cost of [---] blocks Calculate it. Then calculate cost of breaking finality in POS. Which is higher That is more secure"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688160909011890176) 2023-08-06T12:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial There is no way to prevent manipulation in a distributed mechanism because there is no objective view of state. There is just a quest to maximize cost. So users can price their risk and wait as many cons as needed. If you want objective you need trusted 3rd party to define it"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688162838307815425) 2023-08-06T12:19Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial I get it I'm pointing out that these properties you say you want don't exist in POW or POS. they are in fact weaker there since cost of attack is weaker"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688164839049629696) 2023-08-06T12:27Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial The only ppl who say otherwise are POS ppl talking about "finality". That is often sold as delivering non-reorg. but it adds halting attacks. And just puts a low price on forking the network (cost of generating N blocks - competing chain). And that cost is zero for any majority"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688165468379688960) 2023-08-06T12:29Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial as soon as you accept the possibility of 50% malicious actors POS and POW are dead. Saito Consensus isn't. "but I can still attack" Sure but I can actually price the cost of that to you now"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688166046489006080) 2023-08-06T12:32Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial Not trying to be combative. Feel you are asking "but what about attack vector that is much worse everywhere else" and. what about it the best we can do is put a price tag on it. Other mechanisms cannot even do that"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688169904481124352) 2023-08-06T12:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial The difficult thing is that it feels to me like you are pointing to an unsolvable problem generally. "how do we force people to run this software" we can't. not even a trusted-third party can do that"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688173787332943874) 2023-08-06T13:20Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial i.e. consensus pays for access nodes so there are many of them competing for user transactions - much less likely to be isolated by a single provider like Infura running a censored access point"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688174237956354048) 2023-08-06T13:04Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"brb just nuking all for-profit economic attacks on distributed consensus I am become Saito destroyer of shitcoins I am become Saito destroyer of shitcoins"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688182105438900224) 2023-08-06T13:35Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial perhaps this makes better sense as an answer we can improve on the security guarantees that are possible within distributed consensus and we can fix the incentives so that certain forms of abuse are less likely / more costly. we cannot claim to force anyone to do anything"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688203469990322176) 2023-08-06T16:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial you can put together an invalid block. but non-Byzantine nodes (i.e. nodes that follow the rules) will not accept it. so any problems that result from nodes just blindly accepting random data from strangers on trust are not within the scope of the security guarantees offered"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688204710971691015) 2023-08-06T15:05Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial I don't have strong opinions about this. I just assume any compromised machine is fully compromised"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688234844185382913) 2023-08-06T17:05Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688430546870059008) 2023-08-07T06:03Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Andercot if you want to try something new Saito is a distributed ledger / blockchain with P2P video chat. so no time limits on calls etc. and free. click on the hamburger menu top-right and "Video Call" to load it. you'll make direct P2P connection. is better"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688433173347397632) 2023-08-07T06:13Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial Routing policies can be consensus policies. Think it through more"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688714848396611585) 2023-08-08T00:52Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon a single computer operated by a department with multiple directors is not called a "decentralized network" in computer science nor does its CPU provide "distributed consensus""
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688978847998545920) 2023-08-08T18:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon decentralization can't sacrifice openness because it has nothing to do with it you're twisting the topic in hunt for an angle where decentralization can be "defended". why because you want to keep using the word to refer to things that have nothing to do with decentralization"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1688990852440526852) 2023-08-08T19:09Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @__recursion__ @SaitoOfficial I do not know what a forged UTXO is. The word choice implies it appears valid but is not but no invalid UTXO ever appears valid. If a node is running the software it does not accept invalid UTXO. If it isn't a node and isn't running the software who knows what it does"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1689230594570674181) 2023-08-09T11:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon no one is rejecting "decentralization" in the way you think it matters we are pointing out that the word is used to mean many things and that allows harmful solutions to pass themselves off as good and to lead people away from the actual economic problems that kill openness"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1689253908252925952) 2023-08-09T12:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @richard_parris @SaitoOfficial thanks Nova - back at you :D"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1689640246030557184) 2023-08-10T14:10Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@yupi_asa @Everflow35441 @SaitoOfficial @Algorand depends on if you want the fees to pay for the network or pay for. network stakers. you do you"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1689786578741456896) 2023-08-10T23:51Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@WBuurtjes @Justin_Bons @richard_parris @SaitoOfficial there is a dearth of people capable of having these kind of discussions who are interested in doing so. Richard and I are always up for talking about Saito and like and respect Justin so. obviously"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1689787432445919232) 2023-08-10T23:54Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@PerBylund Think of GDP as a pie that shrinks when capital investment shrinks. deflation reduces investment thus shrinking the pie and increasing prices relative to income even as prices fall in nominal terms"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1689788416555372544) 2023-08-10T23:58Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @ThetaWillMoon @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout either way thank you for taking discussion at an even-keel. if you have suggestions on ways to improve the mechanism or network design to improve the aspects of decentralization that you think are critical they are very welcome"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1690280958967324672) 2023-08-12T08:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@ThetaWillMoon To be fair they aren't removing the trilemma from L1 so much as just adding an extra on the sister network"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1690548788816187393) 2023-08-13T02:20Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @Tudmotu @SaitoOfficial ppl forget cost-of-attack exists in POW as a tax on work orphaning and thus taxes a behavior that only attackers exhibit (honest nodes build on the longest-chain). making the problem not "can we create an asymmetrical tax" but "how to enforce if attackers make 50% of blocks""
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1690959981737385984) 2023-08-14T05:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @Tudmotu @SaitoOfficial the only way to enforce is to have a mechanism that pulls money away from an attacker who produces 100% of the blocks on the chain. suspect is one reason Saito is challenging it solves a problem ppl don't realize needs to be solved to eliminate a problem ppl think is unsolvable"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1690961081068605440) 2023-08-14T05:38Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @Tudmotu @SaitoOfficial right. in this case the belief the problem is symmetrical leads to the assumption there are no behavioral differences that can be used to tax malicious players that will not also punish honest nodes. but honest nodes never orphan exactly why the POW tax works 50% control"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1690965726432210944) 2023-08-14T05:57Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaitoOfficial @nnovalabs @JackJWard @holdsaito @Saitodler @saitokris088 @CryptoBOSS___ @globalnodeo @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @ThetaWillMoon @NNovaDefi that works Zen of Saito and all also a variant of citizens"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1691043504385142784) 2023-08-14T11:06Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@MukkingAbout @SenseSkeptical @ThetaWillMoon @brickblockcube how do the routers receive fees picked by the randomness in the mining solution which happens after the node has already committed to burning the fees. There is expected ROI but also expected losses thus not profitable if you use your own money to generate blocks"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1691261613825990656) 2023-08-15T01:32Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@MukkingAbout @SenseSkeptical @ThetaWillMoon @brickblockcube honest nodes will produce blocks using user-paid fees as income is positive (no risk of losing their own money) attackers must spend their own money to outpace the honest chain and then lose some. unless they mine MORE tickets to overcome statistical bias"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1691262051380035584) 2023-08-15T01:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @ThetaWillMoon Prices are emergent and objective in aggregate and production optimizes around them. Utility can be measured in volume of goods and services produced. Market failures involve suboptimal equilibria. If you don't agree fine but I can't help you more"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1691804080903962843) 2023-08-16T13:28Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"it just struck me today that this is "friends at dusk". i guess i have to watch the film again"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1692512471616237882) 2023-08-18T12:23Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@masterq_eth @marinos_m @IdenaNetwork https://github.com/SaitoTech/papers/blob/main/sybil/sybil.pdf https://github.com/SaitoTech/papers/blob/main/sybil/sybil.pdf"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1693170446815129681) 2023-08-20T07:57Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@TraderE9 @jksats i think so too "we're building a house on the cliff.""
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1693823755771150379) 2023-08-22T03:13Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@JackJWard @ThetaWillMoon @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial ha ha lol but so true"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1694920652233617445) 2023-08-25T03:52Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @Justin_Bons @DavidaHodge compare the record lookup and insert performance of literally any database with a performant in-memory hashmap like Google Dense Hashmaps. the UTXO model absolutely smashes the account-based model for basically every algorithm in existence that requires looking up information"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1695447525237674320) 2023-08-26T14:46Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@colludingnode @NoahCitron The problem is caused in POS + POW because the tax on work orphaning (an asymmetrical tax that punishes attackers more than honest nodes) collapses under majoritarian attack. The POS mindset that it is impossible to identify and tax attackers in the network is simply wrong"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1695717879713513664) 2023-08-27T08:40Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@colludingnode @NoahCitron You tax attackers by pushing their income below their costs and making them pay the difference to non-attackers in the network token. This approach continues to bite even in majoritarian conditions. POS people are just behind the times on what they believe here"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1695719119415546193) 2023-08-27T08:45Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@el33th4xor @danfinlay @bascule @secparam @soumyab8 @ittaia the formal proof is now here: adding a routing hop provably costs more than it earns a node yet transaction propagation is still the dominant strategy"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1696070668822130727) 2023-08-28T08:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@meshcode @ProfFaustus @bitcoingold just FYI - the Red Balloons paper is formally incorrect. consensus-managed work-decay function can make adding hops provably costly while keeping transaction propagation the dominant strategy"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1696071270801244595) 2023-08-28T08:04Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@socrates1024 @desantis @breitwoman @ArthurB reaching back here but just an FYI that the Red Balloons paper is now formally incorrect. TL;DR - it's solvable through a work-decay function that forces the cost of block production up by more than the marginal claims on payout from adding an extra hop"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1696071654408085726) 2023-08-28T08:06Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@LaboriousCretin reaching back here but just an FYI that the Red Balloons paper is now formally incorrect. TL;DR - it can be solved through a work-decay function that forces the cost of block production up by more than the marginal extra payout from adding a hop"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1696071836847792212) 2023-08-28T08:06Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@ThetaWillMoon @spicycardanon @NNovaDefi @brickblockcube @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris Routing work is permissionless so no finality (or halting attacks) save for what ATR provides naturally. If desired quorum-based algorithms can be layered on top"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1696321332361973911) 2023-08-29T00:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@spicycardanon @ThetaWillMoon @NNovaDefi @brickblockcube @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris There is no finality on base layer so you cannot force nodes onto forks where they will be stranded by feeding a poisoned chain. Just sync chain. Longest chain w/ required amount of golden tickets is authoritative"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1696353008421130730) 2023-08-29T02:44Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"starting now https://t.co/rTgOoQT8Nw https://t.co/rTgOoQT8Nw"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1696493425296875682) 2023-08-29T12:02Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"meanwhile Bitcoin is busy printing its own form of money to buy its own form of security. and so is proof-of-stake"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1697213883633787119) 2023-08-31T11:44Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"The most efficient coordination tool is the free market. Its efficiency grows with decentralization. And incentives require no overhead to scale. POS developers are forced into suboptimal solutions because they need Lamport-style mechanisms with quorum/governance/closure"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1697479389439721863) 2023-09-01T05:19Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Alice and I will be back in Bangkok next week for a bit over a week -- staying in the Ekkamai / Thong Lor corridor this time. If anyone is in town and wants to catch up for a beer ping on Telegram -- we are exhausted from beach and looking forward to city. :)"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1697874529111175219) 2023-09-02T07:30Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Just to clarify the Infura problem is not that Infura might censor users. You cannot stop private actors deciding who to do business with in a permissionless network. Although if you care about censorship routing work is better because it incentivizes provision of access points 🔴 Openness Decentralization Openness = Non-Excludability = Censorship Resistant = Permissionless That's what we mean when we say Openness is what matters. 👆 Example: We have a decentralized network like Ethereum Losing Openness when Infura blocked access to the network https://t.co/Oheap5ktgM 🔴 Openness"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1697925344840528230) 2023-09-02T10:52Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@Cryptocheff_ @SaitoOfficial @JackJWard @brickblockcube @ThetaWillMoon @MukkingAbout @wickedinvestor @bragoatski @VajraTalon @__recursion__ @Dodomodo1138 @Saitodler We had an AMA last week talking about exactly this and will have a blog post next week and tokenomics update in 3-4 weeks"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1697949381557624984) 2023-09-02T12:27Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"Saito may be the only censorship-proof crypto in the entire space. If an attacker commandeers the chain and prevents users from moving their tokens they make those users eligible for the ATR payout. just one of many radical improvements over POW and POS"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1698495449588552142) 2023-09-04T00:37Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@AnakniZuna714 @SenseSkeptical @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris This is not a claim. It is a factual description of how ATR works. If you cannot spend your tokens because your transactions are being censored they necessarily hit the ATR rebroadcast point and get issued a payout"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1698705982023700974) 2023-09-04T14:34Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@TibsJj @undeadcat1or0 you're approaching the problem from an unsolvable angle - manufacturer of the device that generates the hash from bio-data is trusted-third party: only way to eliminate sybil attacks is to make them quantifiably expensive. afaik only one known solution"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1698954749893345758) 2023-09-05T07:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Why the fuck would you contact Saito and try to pitch us on marketing if you are working on a salad shitcoin with literally every economic problem it is possible to have"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1700775192879050933) 2023-09-10T07:36Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@Crypt0xPaladin not remotely a priority we'll set one up at some point if the AnySwap / Multichain problems are not resolved"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701080884533968903) 2023-09-11T03:51Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Crypt0xPaladin no Saito does not claim to be "basically mainnet" it's useful for some things today and less useful for others the roadmap is on the site and explains what we are working on in what order"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701088418300833812) 2023-09-11T04:20Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Crypt0xPaladin opinions don't mean much show me the devs we should be paying i want to see the apps you think we can buy and how"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701089866682126590) 2023-09-11T04:26Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC saito viewpoint is that the two classes of solutions are: market vs. state state ( governance ) solutions require closed sets of voters. in crypto this translates into DAOs and validators. limited regulated voting 51% attacks etc"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701112903028674959) 2023-09-11T05:58Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@OfficialESC markets solutions do not limit who can vote so are properly permissionless but require there to be no way for voters to "extract value" (or market fails) i.e. free market incentivizes people to "vote" on prices if it shifts the market towards a point of greater efficiency"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701113394726920515) 2023-09-11T06:00Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC POW is market solution but fails if unfunded activities are not provided by volunteers. cost-of-attack fails at 51%. POS reverts to 1980s governance solutions. cannot prevent voters colluding to extract value. cost-of-attack also fails 51%. Saito is the proper market solution"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701114156597014773) 2023-09-11T06:03Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JackJWard @DhruvKo77065333 @MukkingAbout @Cointelegraph @VitalikButerin @SaitoOfficial at least he isn't complaining about lack of marketing"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701239913461506531) 2023-09-11T14:22Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"inflation is a tax on hodlers Saito pays hodlers fixing the economics gives users a much better experience and creates superior tokenomics"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701256125302354106) 2023-09-11T15:27Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Love that RedSquare is getting Inception spam. https://saito.io/redsquare/tweet_id=ee176e92b693426b189362bbe09051fb5f6b5ca9c1f3410cd36251c66686677c6985fd9a28e4a5fb9b1ca44bc820b6c054c7e7c0e10dc5e41b43db63600281ca https://saito.io/redsquare/tweet_id=ee176e92b693426b189362bbe09051fb5f6b5ca9c1f3410cd36251c66686677c6985fd9a28e4a5fb9b1ca44bc820b6c054c7e7c0e10dc5e41b43db63600281ca"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701469161027985682) 2023-09-12T05:33Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@Asoka6699 @SaitoOfficial @JackJWard @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon @holdsaito @Saitodler @tatawirlandi @0xG24 @VajraTalon @The_Juggrnaut @bragoatski Bit off-topic but Palpatine's seduction of Anakin takes place in front of a water ballet. Lucas using the same symbolism as Nolan: water as subconscious and death. It's practically Saito Canon. :)"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701601745208836198) 2023-09-12T14:20Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"wild guess that this decentralized version is going to have a token that is monetized by Infura itself"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701656606604456335) 2023-09-12T17:58Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @brickblockcube @0xluminous this is simply not true. work it out with real examples. if a sybil controls the first hop it has a 100% chance of receiving the routing payout. adding extra hops does not increase its chance of payout"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701947554181919175) 2023-09-13T13:14Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @brickblockcube @0xluminous so you can by-definition only sybil a transaction if you are second-hop or deeper recipient. and the honest node in the first hop position will have a 50%+ chance of payout which is more than the attacker can secure in any network with a finite blocksize"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701948173969670184) 2023-09-13T13:17Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @brickblockcube @0xluminous this is why solving sybilling induces transaction propagation without Saito's solution you don't share because the recipient can profit by transferring your claims of payout to them. with routing work this is more costly than the income the extra hop generates the sybiller"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701948597107847297) 2023-09-13T13:19Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @brickblockcube @0xluminous work through the math. a 1st hop node cannot increase its income adding extra hops. this is incontrovertible attacker needs to be in 2nd or deeper position for sybilling to be profitable as the attack works by transferring claims-on-payment from an earlier-hop node to itself"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1701964217635516740) 2023-09-13T14:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@brickblockcube @SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous He's simply wrong A sybil produces the block with w/ 2nd hop routing work. A non-sybil produces the block faster with 1st hop routing work The probability of the sybil collecting payment is lower because the probability of their blocks being added to the chain is lower"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702157045863235636) 2023-09-14T03:07Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@brickblockcube @SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous The only way a sybil can reach parity on probability is if they burn their own money which puts their cost higher than the non-sybil. There is simply no world in which probability of getting paid is the same for a sybil as a non-sybil ceteris paribus. He hasn't done the math"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702158663199445376) 2023-09-14T03:13Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous don't summarize do the math the income equations on pages 2-3 show unambiguously that self-cloning is not profitable for hop [--] nodes. so any profitable sybil attack must by definition begin at hop [--] or more which by definition is +1 hop deeper than non-sybilled tx think"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702229278170165588) 2023-09-14T07:54Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous the ONLY way an attacker can increase their potential income is if adding a hop defunds someone else in the routing path so you have to start sybilling at hop [--] for any attack that hopes to be profitable and the math shows increase in income expected increase in cost for this"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702231397665308707) 2023-09-14T08:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous no that is not the argument you're deeply confused until you actually do the math i don't think you'll be able to think your way clear of whatever is confusing you"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702399232387457454) 2023-09-14T19:09Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous the income equations show: it is less profitable to sybil than not AND it is less profitable to hoard than not in other mechanisms you trade one for the other. not in Saito -- this what "information propagation without self-cloning" means as right there in the abstract"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702401468949733494) 2023-09-14T19:18Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous you can do whatever the hell you want at hop [--]. print the transaction out bake it in a cake for all anyone cares. you are less profitable if you: - add sybil hops - do not share with peers instead of imagining there is a fictitious trade-off here just do the math"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702402396297765259) 2023-09-14T19:22Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous other mechanisms incentivize nodes to do one or the other. either adding fake hops is incentivized or hoarding is incentivized. Saito incentivizes "information propagation without self-cloning" which means neither hoarding nor sybilling are profit-maximizing strategies"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702403354805281121) 2023-09-14T19:26Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous How do I increase my income adding an extra hop to a tx as a hop1 node"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702535016159551541) 2023-09-15T04:09Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous your expected/statistical profitability goes down as soon as you add that extra hop. it doesn't mean you CANNOT add an extra hop it means that you are LESS PROFITABLE if you do it"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702541315953832270) 2023-09-15T04:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous if you are struggling to see why take your thought experiment and make this one change: remove the extra hop in YOUR tx now imagine you sent that (unsybilled) tx to the block producer instead of the sybilled version. did your chance of getting paid go up it did"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702542335710822783) 2023-09-15T04:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous adding a fake sybil hop does not put "additional money" in the block so your expected income has not gone up by adding that hop. but when you remove it the block that has your transaction has a greater chance of inclusion on the longest-chain so your profitability is higher"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702544835356598624) 2023-09-15T04:48Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous no-one can stop you from adding as many fake hops as you want. the fact you CAN is irrelevant. what the solution formally achieves is making forwarding txs to peers without engage in sybilling / self-cloning the most profitable strategy. this is as true at hop1 as hop4812923"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702545709353120058) 2023-09-15T04:51Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous [---] SAITO fee in [--] transaction you are competing with me equal chances of block production so: your expected income is [--] SAITO which is 50% of [--] SAITO router payout. but u sybil to "collect more in fees" so work out your expected income show your math"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702598537484406812) 2023-09-15T08:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous hoarding is suboptimal. we are not talking about that though. you claim a hop-1 node that sybils "collects more money" than one that does not so you sybil and I don't same transaction and same fees I have a much greater probability of collecting payment i am more profitable"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702682623401939405) 2023-09-15T13:55Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous the math in the paper proves that: [--]. a node which sybils is less profitable than a node which does not [--]. a node which hoards is less profitable than a node which does not the formal proof has to establish BOTH which is why there is a section covering each topic"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702684428517171255) 2023-09-15T14:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous so: non-sybil has (100/100) units of routing work sybil has (100/150) + (50/150) so both have 100% of the routing work in their blocks and the "sum of fees" is the same in both cases so the addition of the sybil hop has not increased the payout at all"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702685775668887762) 2023-09-15T14:08Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous so the sybil is not "collecting more money" it is even collecting the same amount no the sybil has halved its ability to produce blocks its probability of getting its block onto the longest chain has gone down so its probability of payout (expected income) has decreased"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702686980797333640) 2023-09-15T14:13Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous come back to this question after we have finished discussing how routing work makes sybilling+hoarding irrational / suboptimal. the same mechanism that punishes these behaviors also punishes inefficient network configurations and promotes optimal scaling of network"
[X Link](https://x.com/dlancashi/status/1702689881762541727) 2023-09-15T14:24Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
Limited data mode. Full metrics available with subscription: lunarcrush.com/pricing
@dlancashi David Lancashire 🟥
David Lancashire 🟥 posts on X about saito, money, blockchain, bitcoin the most. They currently have [-----] followers and [----] posts still getting attention that total [-------] engagements in the last [--] hours.
Engagements: [-------] #
- [--] Week [-------] +38,599%
- [--] Month [-------] +16,440%
- [--] Months [-------] -89%
- [--] Year [---------] +3,063%
Mentions: [--] #
- [--] Week [--] +750%
- [--] Month [--] +32%
- [--] Months [---] +261%
- [--] Year [---] -1.20%
Followers: [-----] #
- [--] Week [-----] -0.02%
- [--] Month [-----] +0.27%
- [--] Months [-----] +1.40%
- [--] Year [-----] +5%
CreatorRank: [---------] #
Social Influence
Social category influence cryptocurrencies finance technology brands social networks stocks travel destinations countries vc firms currencies automotive brands
Social topic influence saito #162, money, blockchain, bitcoin, if you, $saito, multiversx, token, decentralized, nfts
Top assets mentioned Bitcoin (BTC) Saito (SAITO) MultiversX (EGLD) Ethereum (ETH) Solana (SOL) Cardano (ADA) Alphabet Inc Class A (GOOGL) The Honest Company, Inc. (HNST)
Top Social Posts
Top posts by engagements in the last [--] hours
"Fun challenge for anyone interested in getting started with BCH. [--] USD worth of free crypto if you can guess Alex's password. There is $20 in this medium article. The password for the transaction is what is in the picture that describes the process of reordering child before parent transactions. I only ask that you share what the password was. There is $20 in this medium article. The password for the transaction is what is in the picture that describes the process of reordering child before parent transactions. I only ask that you share what the password was"
X Link 2018-11-03T18:45Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
""What is missing from the Blockchain Industry" - Patrick Dai Qtum ( suggestion: wait for the next blockchain panel ) #TechCrunchSZ"
X Link 2018-11-20T06:00Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Nick is smart. Retweeting as an example: most devs can find a problem with decentralized work on first glance. Few look further and ask if their problems are unsolvable I suspect less hubris than exhaustion from the explosion of POS shitcoins. But a major issue holding ppl back @dlancashi Seems like a Sybil subnet routing to its own nodes could generate its work and pay itself fees back and forth to grind more and more control over time. Work in any real network follows a power law where a minority of nodes generate most work so I don't buy work is decentralized. @dlancashi Seems like a Sybil"
X Link 2020-03-08T01:58Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"WHO Tedros claims threat of pandemic has become "very real" Dr. Tedros reminds me of the soundtracks that play on loop in casinos in Vegas Always escalating but never quite there"
X Link 2020-03-09T17:53Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@joni_koskimaa Neither approach is viable. If you censor honest work your cost-of-block-production rises. If you attack the lottery you burn money. Saito delivers a quantifiable cost-of-attack that holds in majoritarian conditions. Attacking Saito is never profitable"
X Link 2020-09-25T08:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@joni_koskimaa The real issue is that anytime you're forced to grapple with the cost of reorganizing a chain you retreat to claiming that it is impossible to prevent attacks ergo all systems are equally vulnerable. This is simply not true. Huge difference between 50% and 150% cost-of-attack"
X Link 2020-09-25T09:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Saito is going to make Polkadot absolutely massive in the browser. And with no Infura problem. Meanwhile every other blockchain is centralizing around its network providers or justifying their not sharing data / fees with the chain. TOP UPCOMING PROJECTS GRANTED BY @web3foundation PART [--] More and more projects are granted to enhance the @Polkadot ecosystem. And here is a list you should focus on. https://t.co/jENI2oH8ID TOP UPCOMING PROJECTS GRANTED BY @web3foundation PART [--] More and more projects are granted to enhance the @Polkadot ecosystem. And here is a list you should focus on."
X Link 2021-01-12T07:42Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Upcoming Polkadot Cryptocurrency - What Is Saito Web3 Grant Polkastart. via @YouTube https://youtu.be/PuSuxD5HuWg https://youtu.be/PuSuxD5HuWg"
X Link 2021-04-21T17:59Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@do_crypto @GGGEORGEGGGG @CryptoExpert101 @SaitoOfficial @unmarshal think of ETH as collapsing the L2 app onto the L1 network by forcing all of the L1 nodes to feed every tx into L2 EVM. security always dependent on fee-throughput but that is now trapped by execution bottleneck and non-smart-contract uses have to deal with EVM overhead"
X Link 2021-11-09T04:27Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@pronewchaos @GGGEORGEGGGG @anchor_protocol when people recommend stuff we take a look but i don't think we would have the bandwidth to take this on anytime soon"
X Link 2021-11-16T14:19Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@cobyism @SaitoOfficial @cdixon @0xluminous typo - engorge. :)"
X Link 2021-12-24T03:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaskiaCrypto @Trajectory117 @WesleyBKress @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous @derekhodl There are many examples but they can be hard to see at first because we've normalized that all this work just happens for free on "decentralized" networks. A bit like thinking candy is free on Halloween bc houses are decentralized. Can we decentralize the Hershey factory"
X Link 2021-12-29T14:31Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Rob48146087 @Lawwrenc that's Polkastarter @Rob48146087 - anything larger would be disproportionate to the value provided. whatever point you were trying to make that's the actual token distribution right there. https://etherscan.io/token/0xFa14Fa6958401314851A17d6C5360cA29f74B57B#balances https://etherscan.io/token/0xFa14Fa6958401314851A17d6C5360cA29f74B57B#balances"
X Link 2022-01-12T09:59Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Zigadeebong @Trottersintern1 @SaitoOfficial Which app are you talking about"
X Link 2022-03-04T04:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Zigadeebong @Trottersintern1 @SaitoOfficial Have you tried the arcade https://saito.io/arcade https://saito.io/arcade"
X Link 2022-03-04T05:01Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Passapol_J @brickblockcube yes they will eventually have to pay a fee. the applications should be able to plug into revenue generation as well. if pushed to the extreme the difference is that revenue-generation mechanisms in Saito are open because the chain is open. and on-chain costs are lower bc open"
X Link 2022-04-11T05:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@barnabemonnot @smsunarto @gakonst @hdevalence @JaEsf Saito guarantees openness so there are no Lamport-style closure mechanisms validator sets and the discouragement/halting attacks they enable. Fee routing allows nodes to produce blocks and determines percentage of block reward collected. [--] pager here: https://wiki.saito.io/en/consensus https://wiki.saito.io/en/consensus"
X Link 2022-05-29T09:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Migraine___ What i saito's inflation rate there is no block reward so zero. in reality mildly deflationary due to hash variance + gt system. how much of it is held by venture capitalists waiting to sell i'd imagine a smaller chunk than Satoshi's coins: https://etherscan.io/token/0xfa14fa6958401314851a17d6c5360ca29f74b57b#balances https://etherscan.io/token/0xfa14fa6958401314851a17d6c5360ca29f74b57b#balances"
X Link 2022-06-02T11:36Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JiriSvejda1 @THECHAINMEDIA @SaitoOfficial @iLIkeCryptoDuh @sean97453953 @recursion @maxime_leman @swaptoshi @GGGEORGEGGGG beautiful"
X Link 2022-06-05T16:45Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Everflow35441 @SaitoOfficial We have an island settling game Feedback would be really helpful in improving it. :) https://saito.io/arcade https://saito.io/arcade"
X Link 2022-06-24T04:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"A short thread -- let's try to explain the economic problem Saito solves in very simple terms. POW and POS don't pay for everything they need. They incentivize participants to "privatize gains and socialize losses" - do the paid work and let others cover the unprofitable work @WesleyBKress @dlancashi @richard_parris True dat. I can't claim to totally see it yet but the dawn has arrived thanks to Richard and David. It requires going down levels beneath the usual POS vs POW paradigm. @WesleyBKress @dlancashi @richard_parris True dat. I can't claim to totally see it yet but the dawn has arrived"
X Link 2022-07-21T02:12Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@michaelcrupto @brickblockcube @atxmj @koeppelmann @richard_parris Supply isn't inflating. Really. And there is no block reward by design: inflation would subsidize attackers and enable fee recycling attacks. U cant charge for block production and then give out free money to block producers"
X Link 2022-09-20T08:10Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@brickblockcube @off99555 @Justin_Bons @allicnac It's impossible to push past "could work" in most cases but there's significant progress when discussion happens with people at least recognizing they're hemmed in by the requirement for non-commercial provision and that "McDonalds is incentivized to run the network" isn't true"
X Link 2022-10-14T05:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@brickblockcube @off99555 @Justin_Bons @allicnac Scaling is anywhere and everywhere a function of bytes-across-network. Keep costs low and we keep scale low. Keep scale low and we keep network effects low. we "could" have low-throughput money with low network effects but winner more likely to be highest network effect token"
X Link 2022-10-14T05:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JP_5th_Yonkou @SaitoOfficial we're working on it Click on any username/address and you can "add contact". That will get them into your sidebar chat-manager w/ secured comms and will soon also get a direct P2P connection Implementation under dev but reliability coming. fetch tweets from peers directly etc"
X Link 2022-11-10T03:33Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@translator0000 @CryptoNationIN @SaitoOfficial Openness is non-excludability. Anyone can start running a network node or use the network. This makes it impossible for anyone to tax or exclude others and also profit from doing so. Lowest cost network provision without 3rd party monetizing network effects"
X Link 2022-11-16T11:36Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Saitodler @Joncole23 @takegreenpill @EmersonDickie @SaitoOfficial I'd be happy to chat"
X Link 2022-11-18T08:59Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@t0lvek @SaitoOfficial Usability and teaching this game is a huge challenge. Thanks for playing. Suggestions welcome"
X Link 2022-11-18T19:54Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Trottersintern1 @SaitoOfficial javascript would be the winner you can use it to build modules but also hack around with the consensus-layer if you want. it'll be easier to build modules in other languages later but everything running in userland on is JS currently. http://saito.io http://saito.io"
X Link 2022-12-06T09:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@iLIkeCryptoDuh @SaitoOfficial i have never actually played Zelda"
X Link 2022-12-08T03:42Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Nick63586419 @SangueB77037439 @udiWertheimer @DylanLeClair_ You should look into Saito Nick. At minimum if you want more volunteers the easiest way to accomplish that is pay them. Saito's dust mining approach to chain history is also clearly a better approach for SOV coins than adding tail emissions/inflation. https://x.com/_Biotechmcclain/status/1526149940895854592 $Saito rebroadcast (blockchain cycling) fixes this. If Bitcoin had rebroadcast fees it could remain limited at deflationary [--] million but would solve scaling AND survive from only fees."
X Link 2022-12-09T07:37Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"The only time other blockchain devs talk about collective action problems is when they're coming up with justifications / excuses not to solve them. see: "The eventual solution will be to not care how big / expensive / parasitic it gets." - Satoshi Everyone wants to ride the bicycle - No one Wants to Put in the Work The Free-Rider Problem - A Major Challenge for Blockchain Tech How the Lack of Incentives is Impeding the Growth Openness and Security of Decentralized Networks Lets dive in. https://t.co/3IoUsdGvZE Everyone wants to ride the bicycle - No one Wants to Put in the Work The"
X Link 2023-01-10T09:54Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Saito is how a free market works You get to take out what you put in. Everyone Wants to Ride The Bike - No one Wants to Put in the Work. But What if Everyone Who Rides the Bike is Incentivized To Do The Work Imagine What That Blockchain World Would Look Like. Saito Network Solution to The Free-Rider Problem. Lets dive in. https://t.co/CZYHampLU9 Everyone Wants to Ride The Bike - No one Wants to Put in the Work. But What if Everyone Who Rides the Bike is Incentivized To Do The Work Imagine What That Blockchain World Would Look Like. Saito Network Solution to The Free-Rider Problem. Lets dive"
X Link 2023-01-12T13:33Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Once An Idea Has Taken Hold Of The Brain It's Almost Impossible To Eradicate. 🤯 This is what happens after people take the 🟥 💊. Understanding Saito is a steep 🏔 to climb. But once you reach the summit everything is clear. ❯ Join us in spreading the 🟥💊. #LFGrow https://t.co/vS5antFAPO Once An Idea Has Taken Hold Of The Brain It's Almost Impossible To Eradicate. 🤯 This is what happens after people take the 🟥 💊. Understanding Saito is a steep 🏔 to climb. But once you reach the summit everything is clear. ❯ Join us in spreading the 🟥💊. #LFGrow https://t.co/vS5antFAPO"
X Link 2023-02-03T09:17Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@nikete @0xBrMazoRoig peers are identified by cryptographic keys so you can't present yourself as someone you're not. you can try to insert yourself into the network and add claims to payout from the routing lottery but doing so adds routing hops and impoverishes both your peers"
X Link 2023-02-04T12:49Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@nikete @0xBrMazoRoig the block producer on your inside is competing with others to include this TX for the routing-payout and you just made them 2x slower producing blocks if at all. the same TXs you are routing to them will confirm on another routing path faster"
X Link 2023-02-04T12:50Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Sybil attack involve attackers replacing an expensive form of work that has positive externalities with a cheap one (creating a new keypair) that makes them more money. value extraction attack which is how Saito stops it. The attacker can use these fake identities to manipulate the network's consensus mechanism and compromise the integrity of the system. This can lead to various forms of abuse such as double-spending or spreading false information in a social network. This is a serious problem. The attacker can use these fake identities to manipulate the network's consensus mechanism and"
X Link 2023-02-20T13:01Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@Justin_Bons @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial There's a third option: transaction rebroadcasting simultaneously prunes dust eliminates a tragedy-of-the-commons problem and allows for much larger blocks and fee throughput as overall chain size becomes static. advantage over "rent" is that price is set by market not devs"
X Link 2023-03-16T02:29Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @JorgeStolfi @MukkingAbout I rather liked "Saito is more than an advance" the based pro-blockchain Stolfi offering the historical perspective"
X Link 2023-04-08T12:26Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@MukkingAbout @JorgeStolfi @sinoTrinity @DerekBoberic The hilarious thing is that he's made the same mistake here he made as a kid building hydrolysis engines -- treating the cost of system operation (energy there cost of attracting fee-flow here) as non-existent. So he literally hasn't learned anything in [--] years or whatever"
X Link 2023-04-10T02:09Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"Fascinating to read this thread on sybilling by @DennisonBertram. Half of the commenters think the problem is solved by mechanisms that add closure & half think it is unsolvable. But no trivial number of ppl pointing out Saito solves w/o closure. I guess the word is getting out. @DennisonBertram Saito is Sybil Proof🟥 "Something fascinating happens when an attacker sybils a routing-work blockchain. Whereas all the fees in the block were previously potential income to the attacker the lottery is now taxing their wallet directly" https://t.co/GhvwU2Wr3t #Saito $Saito https://t.co/tXvxtOSku6"
X Link 2023-04-21T02:39Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@kuixihe @0xNinja @maddykrish1984 @andrarchy @WeleleTumblr @lionmhh78 @Blockworks_ @koinosnetwork @SaitoOfficial Misplaced criticism - Saito continually tops the charts for dev activity and has a vibrant community of users & applications. but - yes - everyone should understand the incentive-layer problems that Saito fixes as otherwise we end up with unsolvable economic attacks/issues"
X Link 2023-04-23T12:53Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@atxmj @mira_hurley @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial Nano is designed for token transfers but from the Saito perspective that limits it to volunteer scale because big-data isn't something volunteers will do. So there's a fundamental difference in usage and an implied difference in where free-fee transfers get positioned on stack"
X Link 2023-04-24T03:48Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@atxmj @mira_hurley @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial This video attempts to explain the underlying economic problem and how it leads to only [--] categories of solutions: Nano is a solution in the 1st category while Saito is a solution in the 3rd category. Avoiding the 2nd category is the most critical thing https://www.youtube.com/watchv=C81D6B9sgH8 https://www.youtube.com/watchv=C81D6B9sgH8"
X Link 2023-04-24T03:51Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi Hashing algorithm. Faster and I believe more secure than SHA256. Better in a few other ways too"
X Link 2023-05-01T07:50Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"Want to raise the visibility of the Saito Arcade The folks at Ethereum actually have a 100% on-topic thread and deserve to learn about all of the amazing things happening at the Saito Arcade https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1375gb0/which_blockchain_game_would_you_describe_as_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1375gb0/which_blockchain_game_would_you_describe_as_a/"
X Link 2023-05-04T13:27Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@a_vaunt @LoganJastremski @fuserleer It's not that sharding is a BS solution. I like Dan and the Radix community tbh. Also Near. The issue is that the problem is tightly defined: [--]. scale = total bytes throughput [--]. decentralization = num machines processing those bytes [--]. security = cost of attack"
X Link 2023-05-16T13:08Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaitoOfficial i don't think this is a really good analogy to be honest. it frames the problem as difficulty / cost of bidding but it's really about preventing fee-circularity"
X Link 2023-05-17T04:10Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaitoOfficial if there's an analogy to blockchain buried here it might be that POW and POS are like auctions where you have to burn your money to bid at all so the winner of the bid gets the item but the others lose their money. which means they can't spend that bidding on other items"
X Link 2023-05-17T04:12Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaitoOfficial Saito fixes this -- if you lose your bid for the painting you can spend the money on another item and team up with others to buy it too. so the same amount of money is chasing fewer items increasing the cost to the attacker of the next bid he has to outspend 100% of the room"
X Link 2023-05-17T04:16Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"personally convinced the biggest reason Saito is hard for people to grasp is that they don't understand Bitcoin. second biggest is that people struggle with probabilities - and multiple variables are in flux when nodes add a hop (amount to collect chance of collection etc.)"
X Link 2023-05-25T04:22Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi t's what struck me most about the convo with @jorgestolfi tbh. non-idiot who spent 10+ years on Bitcoin but still didn't realize its incentive structure taxed attackers w/o identifying them. thus never thought to ask "can any such tax hold above 50%""
X Link 2023-05-25T05:56Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JorgeStolfi @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial your argument from authority is hollow - this is an econ problem. where did you do your grad coursework in econ mine was at Berkeley. and you lost credibility as a academic when you switched from "this issue is impossible to solve" to "solving it does not prevent all attacks.""
X Link 2023-05-26T02:45Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JorgeStolfi @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial you aren't qualified doubly-so if you think calling for regulation means someone thinks something is worthless. wts imo Roubini is correct - 99.9% of cryptos are shit economic mechanisms designed by computer scientists who don't understand collective action problems"
X Link 2023-05-28T01:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JorgeStolfi @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial No-one will confuse you as someone capable of understanding Saito Jorge You showed your limits when you insisted it was impossible to tax attackers w/o identifying them requiring an ELI5 explanation of how BITCOIN accomplishes this by lowering ROI to work-orphaning"
X Link 2023-05-28T01:25Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@breadoflifer @NNovaDefi one of the questions we're wondering is why people chill out on the Arcade to play games when the same functionality should be there in RedSquare. think a lot of the reason is that usage goes up with polish and RS needs refactor especially to improve curation + content"
X Link 2023-05-29T06:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@brickblockcube @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial justin is a good person. he'll figure it out"
X Link 2023-05-31T03:22Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@page_analyst @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris not sure how we can help. reach out anytime"
X Link 2023-06-09T00:31Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@allicnac @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris thank you for digging into the substance and encouraging others to do so as well. if you have any questions feel welcome to hit up richard or i anytime"
X Link 2023-06-10T08:06Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@AnamarijaML @Devrim992 @talesoftao @SaitoOfficial see you in six months"
X Link 2023-06-19T11:59Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@bragoatski @SaitoOfficial Same as yesterday and day before etc. End of summer"
X Link 2023-06-27T23:29Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@WurmRobsch @ThetaWillMoon @thetainvestor Perhaps this is the time "to learn as much as you can about BTC" so that you aren't on the backfoot struggling to explain it to people who do :)"
X Link 2023-07-07T17:16Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"this is. true. Saito is better suited for computational programming as well because arbitrary data can be added to the transaction and on-chain / off-chain message just works"
X Link 2023-07-08T16:13Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"This image reminds me of [----]. Always loved that film - one of its themes being the impossibility of true communication (the lovers all speak different languages) The way Saito defines and then solves fundamental problems is a bit like that. We just speak a different language. 🔴 Scalability Without Trade-Offs Saito is a Layer [--] blockchain offering a scalable permissionless data network for decentralized applications. ⛓ It addresses key market failures with a unique consensus focusing on financial incentive alignment for network scalability. 🛠 https://t.co/B3EiilvkeA 🔴 Scalability Without"
X Link 2023-07-17T05:42Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@BuildingWeb4 @VitalikButerin @VladZamfir do you want to go through the incentive misalignments here first of all inflation is a type of fee. if you have inflation you might pay for validators but you certainly weaken SOV utility. which means the utility has to come from data/network throughput"
X Link 2023-07-23T03:53Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@BuildingWeb4 @VitalikButerin @VladZamfir if we've added the ability of the network to make a payout funded by inflation then the income from running nodes is no longer zero. either there is income for network providers or not. the form in which users pay the fee is irrelevant"
X Link 2023-07-23T06:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@badenglishtea The public sale was a Polkastarter marketing activity. There has never been a public sale of the type you are thinking. What you are seeing is fair launch of an actual revolutionary network w/ consensus mechanism that solves fundamental problems without technical trade-offs"
X Link 2023-07-28T02:46Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"it's 100% true that people are clueless on Saito the question is when that changes and how Sometimes I think $SAITO is so brilliant that people just cant fathom what it actually is I guess we have to accept that the majority is close minded until they are not. https://t.co/jHjvx3BRcg Sometimes I think $SAITO is so brilliant that people just cant fathom what it actually is I guess we have to accept that the majority is close minded until they are not. https://t.co/jHjvx3BRcg"
X Link 2023-07-28T10:32Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial re: existence of nonce [--]. you need the golden ticket to include the information about the key of the miner so that the solution cannot be stolen in transit. i.e. routing node cannot swap in its own public key and claim to have found the winning solution itself"
X Link 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial [--]. if you don't use a nonce every publickey will generate [--] hash each block which incentivizes them to brute force keyspace to increase chance of winning. you can only solve this in designs that limit who can participate - like POS - where closure adds set-participant attacks"
X Link 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial [--]. remember that the randomness in the hash is not just binary (can you produce a block) as in POW but used entirely as it picks a winning TX and then winning routing node from within that transaction. i.e. multiple valid solutions will exist that will pay different routers"
X Link 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial having randomness in the input to the payout hash allows Saito to keep the cost-of-payout properties of mining while ADDING a punitive combinatorial selection tax ("does this ALSO pay the attacker") attackers can only overcome the statistical bias of the latter w/ more hashing"
X Link 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial i don't personally see the complaint about "rare" as a word being used to describe a winning hash solution. especially on a ELI5. if there's a problem here it's that the language / concepts of mining dominate how people think about blockchain and prevents them from understanding"
X Link 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial if you can design a system without a nonce that would be very interesting. it might be a step towards a better version of POS. my gut feeling is that we'd run into problems around keeping cost-of-fee-recapture asymmetrically punishing for attackers. but this might be wrong"
X Link 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @SaitoOfficial please see response in other thread note also that without a nonce block producers can "look-ahead" to see likely payout hashes available and game the way TXS are ordered in blocks to increase chance they are paid as winning router"
X Link 2023-07-30T07:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial i agree with you but will add that one of the problems with non-block approaches is that their devs generally assume the problem is "consensus" rather than cost-of-attack protections in open networks and they usually hurt universal TX ordering needed for many L2 use cases"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial openness is the most valuable characteristic because it is what protects against the formation of cartels and network monopolies that profit from taxing access to the network effect. people think they can safely add closure as long as they have "decentralization". they can't"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial nothing can tell you if data has been altered. even if you add all kinds of closure mechanisms and leverage them so validators can vote on "finality" you can't be sure there aren't multiple chains with finality worse their incentives lead to collusion / cartelization"
X Link 2023-07-30T18:43Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial what Bitcoin gave us was the promise that as long as the network security conditions held (an attacker did not have 50% of network hashpower) anyone forging a validating version of consensus would have needed to burn X to produce/extend it. want more security wait more confs"
X Link 2023-07-30T18:43Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial In the real world it is certainly possible to. yes it's trivial with trusted third parties if that were true then there is no point in building a cryptocurrency you use a cryptocurrency when trusted third parties are not acceptable and Saito doesn't have them"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial the problems that bad solutions are intended to solve don't "re-appear" in the absence of those compromises because the problems are solved more elegantly with better solutions that don't require closure there are no sybil attacks on Saito and no more spam issues than POW or POS"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial Routing work adds cryptographic signatures to the network layer. You are describing problems with POW and POS which do not take this approach which is one of the reasons they have zero informational basis to identify and pay for useful infrastructure"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial yes - the core reason the token even matters is that it allows the network to incentivize its own provision which eliminates the need for an owner (trusted third party) whose power of excludability stems from their status as the network funder/operator"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I wouldn't dispute that adding closure / trusted third parties affords a range of solutions to perceived problems. I'm not sure I'd agree that these provide "greater defense" as most "protections" created by governance mechanisms creates symmetrical vulnerabilities"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I suppose this would need to be discussed on a case-by-case basis. If it were true that governance mechanisms did allow for "greater defense" a straightforward question would be how we can use them to achieve a higher cost-of-attack than Saito does"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I'm not sure what you mean by data integrity in the context of L1 if you don't mean verifying a chain is valid. In all L1s full trustlessness requires validating full blocks but lite clients can verify portions using SPV-style merkle proofs etc. did you mean something else"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial having the mining "puzzle" in a transaction allows for some creative kinds of lite-chain validation where cost-of-chain-extension can be validated even if the transactions themselves are not scrutinized. data integrity guarantees are otherwise essentially the same as POW though"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial Saito Consensus isn't POW and doesn't have these problems. The issue isn't the existence of hashing (abstractly) Concentration is dangerous in POW because latency weakens the 1-CPU-1-VOTE guarantee which makes larger miners more profitable per dollar of hash than smaller miners"
X Link 2023-07-31T02:58Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I agree that there are solutions to the former. Most involve adding closure (leader selection round-robin block production). Saito solves the former by having producers "collect" work instead of "generate" it so we get a natural round-robin dynamic. No closure needed"
X Link 2023-07-31T03:05Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial it is more difficult to see how Saito makes headway against malicious majorities but Saito improves tolerance from (n-1 / 2) to (n-1 / 2) + x where x is a positible variable that increases with the depth of the attack on the chain"
X Link 2023-07-31T03:07Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial this is done by asymmetrically redistributing tokens from attackers to non-attackers every time they orphan a block (i.e. produce a block that has less efficient routing paths than the pre-attack network would have produced on average) it is hard to explain on Twitter"
X Link 2023-07-31T03:08Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial in both cases we're dealing with fundamental solutions that eliminate problems by fixing incentives. - orphaning blocks stops being profitable - concentration doesn't give an advantage in getting paid fixing the incentives is how we solve w/o closure because attacks have cost"
X Link 2023-07-31T03:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial I don't think Saito is at a disadvantage to any other network in this area. But I'm not sure of the exact concern so can't really elaborate. it IS nice to finally have an incentive for nodes to share this sort of data although that's more of a 3rd or 4th order difference"
X Link 2023-07-31T03:15Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial you're right Nate -- I commented somewhat reflexively and didn't put 2-and-2 together on who you were. also don't mind your opinions on network development or business strategy at all. think the easiest red pill for ETH folk will be ATR and that we can help them"
X Link 2023-07-31T04:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial @ConveyorLabs i think things are going well tbh. tx volume is growing as apps improve so would want to see problems with social + gaming + comms focus before thinking about strategic changes would like to see other networks understand ATR as it can help them and help us in turn"
X Link 2023-07-31T04:44Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial @ConveyorLabs Saito can be an application layer for other L1s. don't think that's something we can "position" for other than by building our own community and platform and then people realizing that it is plug-and-play for their own networks by adding a file or two"
X Link 2023-07-31T05:13Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial @ConveyorLabs to me what really matters is your point about economic fundamentals. fixing the incentives gives us a truly scalable permissionless network. we don't know if this is valuable or provides real utility but it is historically unprecedented and everything else is web2 in comparison"
X Link 2023-07-31T05:16Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial Can you describe the specific attack vector you are concerned about using Bitcoin as a reference"
X Link 2023-07-31T11:25Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Pixie has had a rough night of running around meowing at 3am"
X Link 2023-08-02T16:34Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial it's the ability to create this asymmetrical TAX that allows us to fix the underlying incentive problems in POW/POS. in POW the tax exists because expected ROI is lower if you build anywhere but longest chain but falls apart once you have 50% hash. In Saito it never falls apart"
X Link 2023-08-02T02:39Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @DwightSwipe @NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @SaitoOfficial attackers: - have to spend money to outcompete honest chain - have to orphan honest blocks the first requires spending their own money the second requires accepting dismal lottery payouts. costly randomness needed to enforce #2"
X Link 2023-08-02T02:43Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @Justin_Bons @cybercapital @SaitoOfficial I agree with you - just acknowledging it is hard for people to deal with paradigm shifts when filtered through financial motivations (see Innovator's Dilemma) Justin's money is not needed. His ability to think is valuable if he cares about L1 scaling which I believe he does"
X Link 2023-08-03T02:54Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@cryptoleo88 @SaitoOfficial @globalnodeo @JackJWard @holdsaito @Saitodler @wickedinvestor @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon @VajraTalon @0xG24 ping me with your TG account you might have been inadvertent collateral in reflexive anti-spamming"
X Link 2023-08-02T14:17Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@OfficialESC @SaitoOfficial thank you Nate. ❤ legit appreciated - very hard to get people to think about the fundamentals this way - every push helps"
X Link 2023-08-04T04:49Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@MukkingAbout @SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion Problem is that the exponential gain we get from the combinatorial difficulty of targeting multiple payouts only works if attackers must pay the FULL hashing costs every do-over. Can't allow them to keep 5/8 but redo the 3/8 that pay others. Or brute force just the last hash"
X Link 2023-08-05T10:51Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial It's the other way. Thanks for asking about perceived problems and thinking about the answers. It is hard to have conversations about fundamentals. Most of the credit is yours"
X Link 2023-08-05T10:41Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial this might be more readable as it is javascript - is older file as we've just updated the JS client to use embedded-rust / WASM: block.validate() runs validate() on all its txs which similarly validates its slips"
X Link 2023-08-05T13:30Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial the comparable rust files are here: / / Rust architecture is more complicated as threads are needed to connect these core files / objects to the OS or browser-layer WASM API"
X Link 2023-08-05T13:30Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial if you have a malicious actor able to flip bits on your hard drive no piece of software in the world will secure you against that protecting against God-tier attacker who can do that isn't within the scope of the security guarantee offered by any network"
X Link 2023-08-05T21:44Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial Permissionless has no concept of bad or good actors. Throw it out. Any discrimination on assumption of intent violates equal treatment / openness properties. Is why permissionless solution forces attackers to outspend honest nodes and become highest paying users"
X Link 2023-08-06T12:10Z [--] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial As for the rest all you have is cost of attack. Reorg cost of [---] blocks Calculate it. Then calculate cost of breaking finality in POS. Which is higher That is more secure"
X Link 2023-08-06T12:11Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial There is no way to prevent manipulation in a distributed mechanism because there is no objective view of state. There is just a quest to maximize cost. So users can price their risk and wait as many cons as needed. If you want objective you need trusted 3rd party to define it"
X Link 2023-08-06T12:19Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial I get it I'm pointing out that these properties you say you want don't exist in POW or POS. they are in fact weaker there since cost of attack is weaker"
X Link 2023-08-06T12:27Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial The only ppl who say otherwise are POS ppl talking about "finality". That is often sold as delivering non-reorg. but it adds halting attacks. And just puts a low price on forking the network (cost of generating N blocks - competing chain). And that cost is zero for any majority"
X Link 2023-08-06T12:29Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial as soon as you accept the possibility of 50% malicious actors POS and POW are dead. Saito Consensus isn't. "but I can still attack" Sure but I can actually price the cost of that to you now"
X Link 2023-08-06T12:32Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial Not trying to be combative. Feel you are asking "but what about attack vector that is much worse everywhere else" and. what about it the best we can do is put a price tag on it. Other mechanisms cannot even do that"
X Link 2023-08-06T12:47Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial The difficult thing is that it feels to me like you are pointing to an unsolvable problem generally. "how do we force people to run this software" we can't. not even a trusted-third party can do that"
X Link 2023-08-06T13:20Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial i.e. consensus pays for access nodes so there are many of them competing for user transactions - much less likely to be isolated by a single provider like Infura running a censored access point"
X Link 2023-08-06T13:04Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"brb just nuking all for-profit economic attacks on distributed consensus I am become Saito destroyer of shitcoins I am become Saito destroyer of shitcoins"
X Link 2023-08-06T13:35Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial perhaps this makes better sense as an answer we can improve on the security guarantees that are possible within distributed consensus and we can fix the incentives so that certain forms of abuse are less likely / more costly. we cannot claim to force anyone to do anything"
X Link 2023-08-06T16:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial you can put together an invalid block. but non-Byzantine nodes (i.e. nodes that follow the rules) will not accept it. so any problems that result from nodes just blindly accepting random data from strangers on trust are not within the scope of the security guarantees offered"
X Link 2023-08-06T15:05Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial I don't have strong opinions about this. I just assume any compromised machine is fully compromised"
X Link 2023-08-06T17:05Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial"
X Link 2023-08-07T06:03Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Andercot if you want to try something new Saito is a distributed ledger / blockchain with P2P video chat. so no time limits on calls etc. and free. click on the hamburger menu top-right and "Video Call" to load it. you'll make direct P2P connection. is better"
X Link 2023-08-07T06:13Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial Routing policies can be consensus policies. Think it through more"
X Link 2023-08-08T00:52Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon a single computer operated by a department with multiple directors is not called a "decentralized network" in computer science nor does its CPU provide "distributed consensus""
X Link 2023-08-08T18:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon decentralization can't sacrifice openness because it has nothing to do with it you're twisting the topic in hunt for an angle where decentralization can be "defended". why because you want to keep using the word to refer to things that have nothing to do with decentralization"
X Link 2023-08-08T19:09Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @richard_parris @recursion @SaitoOfficial I do not know what a forged UTXO is. The word choice implies it appears valid but is not but no invalid UTXO ever appears valid. If a node is running the software it does not accept invalid UTXO. If it isn't a node and isn't running the software who knows what it does"
X Link 2023-08-09T11:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon no one is rejecting "decentralization" in the way you think it matters we are pointing out that the word is used to mean many things and that allows harmful solutions to pass themselves off as good and to lead people away from the actual economic problems that kill openness"
X Link 2023-08-09T12:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @richard_parris @SaitoOfficial thanks Nova - back at you :D"
X Link 2023-08-10T14:10Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@yupi_asa @Everflow35441 @SaitoOfficial @Algorand depends on if you want the fees to pay for the network or pay for. network stakers. you do you"
X Link 2023-08-10T23:51Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@WBuurtjes @Justin_Bons @richard_parris @SaitoOfficial there is a dearth of people capable of having these kind of discussions who are interested in doing so. Richard and I are always up for talking about Saito and like and respect Justin so. obviously"
X Link 2023-08-10T23:54Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@PerBylund Think of GDP as a pie that shrinks when capital investment shrinks. deflation reduces investment thus shrinking the pie and increasing prices relative to income even as prices fall in nominal terms"
X Link 2023-08-10T23:58Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @ThetaWillMoon @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout either way thank you for taking discussion at an even-keel. if you have suggestions on ways to improve the mechanism or network design to improve the aspects of decentralization that you think are critical they are very welcome"
X Link 2023-08-12T08:35Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@ThetaWillMoon To be fair they aren't removing the trilemma from L1 so much as just adding an extra on the sister network"
X Link 2023-08-13T02:20Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @Tudmotu @SaitoOfficial ppl forget cost-of-attack exists in POW as a tax on work orphaning and thus taxes a behavior that only attackers exhibit (honest nodes build on the longest-chain). making the problem not "can we create an asymmetrical tax" but "how to enforce if attackers make 50% of blocks""
X Link 2023-08-14T05:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @Tudmotu @SaitoOfficial the only way to enforce is to have a mechanism that pulls money away from an attacker who produces 100% of the blocks on the chain. suspect is one reason Saito is challenging it solves a problem ppl don't realize needs to be solved to eliminate a problem ppl think is unsolvable"
X Link 2023-08-14T05:38Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@NNovaDefi @Tudmotu @SaitoOfficial right. in this case the belief the problem is symmetrical leads to the assumption there are no behavioral differences that can be used to tax malicious players that will not also punish honest nodes. but honest nodes never orphan exactly why the POW tax works 50% control"
X Link 2023-08-14T05:57Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SaitoOfficial @nnovalabs @JackJWard @holdsaito @Saitodler @saitokris088 @CryptoBOSS___ @globalnodeo @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @ThetaWillMoon @NNovaDefi that works Zen of Saito and all also a variant of citizens"
X Link 2023-08-14T11:06Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@MukkingAbout @SenseSkeptical @ThetaWillMoon @brickblockcube how do the routers receive fees picked by the randomness in the mining solution which happens after the node has already committed to burning the fees. There is expected ROI but also expected losses thus not profitable if you use your own money to generate blocks"
X Link 2023-08-15T01:32Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@MukkingAbout @SenseSkeptical @ThetaWillMoon @brickblockcube honest nodes will produce blocks using user-paid fees as income is positive (no risk of losing their own money) attackers must spend their own money to outpace the honest chain and then lose some. unless they mine MORE tickets to overcome statistical bias"
X Link 2023-08-15T01:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @ThetaWillMoon Prices are emergent and objective in aggregate and production optimizes around them. Utility can be measured in volume of goods and services produced. Market failures involve suboptimal equilibria. If you don't agree fine but I can't help you more"
X Link 2023-08-16T13:28Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"it just struck me today that this is "friends at dusk". i guess i have to watch the film again"
X Link 2023-08-18T12:23Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@masterq_eth @marinos_m @IdenaNetwork https://github.com/SaitoTech/papers/blob/main/sybil/sybil.pdf https://github.com/SaitoTech/papers/blob/main/sybil/sybil.pdf"
X Link 2023-08-20T07:57Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@TraderE9 @jksats i think so too "we're building a house on the cliff.""
X Link 2023-08-22T03:13Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@JackJWard @ThetaWillMoon @NNovaDefi @SaitoOfficial ha ha lol but so true"
X Link 2023-08-25T03:52Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @brickblockcube @Justin_Bons @DavidaHodge compare the record lookup and insert performance of literally any database with a performant in-memory hashmap like Google Dense Hashmaps. the UTXO model absolutely smashes the account-based model for basically every algorithm in existence that requires looking up information"
X Link 2023-08-26T14:46Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@colludingnode @NoahCitron The problem is caused in POS + POW because the tax on work orphaning (an asymmetrical tax that punishes attackers more than honest nodes) collapses under majoritarian attack. The POS mindset that it is impossible to identify and tax attackers in the network is simply wrong"
X Link 2023-08-27T08:40Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@colludingnode @NoahCitron You tax attackers by pushing their income below their costs and making them pay the difference to non-attackers in the network token. This approach continues to bite even in majoritarian conditions. POS people are just behind the times on what they believe here"
X Link 2023-08-27T08:45Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@el33th4xor @danfinlay @bascule @secparam @soumyab8 @ittaia the formal proof is now here: adding a routing hop provably costs more than it earns a node yet transaction propagation is still the dominant strategy"
X Link 2023-08-28T08:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@meshcode @ProfFaustus @bitcoingold just FYI - the Red Balloons paper is formally incorrect. consensus-managed work-decay function can make adding hops provably costly while keeping transaction propagation the dominant strategy"
X Link 2023-08-28T08:04Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@socrates1024 @desantis @breitwoman @ArthurB reaching back here but just an FYI that the Red Balloons paper is now formally incorrect. TL;DR - it's solvable through a work-decay function that forces the cost of block production up by more than the marginal claims on payout from adding an extra hop"
X Link 2023-08-28T08:06Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@LaboriousCretin reaching back here but just an FYI that the Red Balloons paper is now formally incorrect. TL;DR - it can be solved through a work-decay function that forces the cost of block production up by more than the marginal extra payout from adding a hop"
X Link 2023-08-28T08:06Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@ThetaWillMoon @spicycardanon @NNovaDefi @brickblockcube @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris Routing work is permissionless so no finality (or halting attacks) save for what ATR provides naturally. If desired quorum-based algorithms can be layered on top"
X Link 2023-08-29T00:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@spicycardanon @ThetaWillMoon @NNovaDefi @brickblockcube @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris There is no finality on base layer so you cannot force nodes onto forks where they will be stranded by feeding a poisoned chain. Just sync chain. Longest chain w/ required amount of golden tickets is authoritative"
X Link 2023-08-29T02:44Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"starting now https://t.co/rTgOoQT8Nw https://t.co/rTgOoQT8Nw"
X Link 2023-08-29T12:02Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"meanwhile Bitcoin is busy printing its own form of money to buy its own form of security. and so is proof-of-stake"
X Link 2023-08-31T11:44Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"The most efficient coordination tool is the free market. Its efficiency grows with decentralization. And incentives require no overhead to scale. POS developers are forced into suboptimal solutions because they need Lamport-style mechanisms with quorum/governance/closure"
X Link 2023-09-01T05:19Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Alice and I will be back in Bangkok next week for a bit over a week -- staying in the Ekkamai / Thong Lor corridor this time. If anyone is in town and wants to catch up for a beer ping on Telegram -- we are exhausted from beach and looking forward to city. :)"
X Link 2023-09-02T07:30Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Just to clarify the Infura problem is not that Infura might censor users. You cannot stop private actors deciding who to do business with in a permissionless network. Although if you care about censorship routing work is better because it incentivizes provision of access points 🔴 Openness Decentralization Openness = Non-Excludability = Censorship Resistant = Permissionless That's what we mean when we say Openness is what matters. 👆 Example: We have a decentralized network like Ethereum Losing Openness when Infura blocked access to the network https://t.co/Oheap5ktgM 🔴 Openness"
X Link 2023-09-02T10:52Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@Cryptocheff_ @SaitoOfficial @JackJWard @brickblockcube @ThetaWillMoon @MukkingAbout @wickedinvestor @bragoatski @VajraTalon @recursion @Dodomodo1138 @Saitodler We had an AMA last week talking about exactly this and will have a blog post next week and tokenomics update in 3-4 weeks"
X Link 2023-09-02T12:27Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"Saito may be the only censorship-proof crypto in the entire space. If an attacker commandeers the chain and prevents users from moving their tokens they make those users eligible for the ATR payout. just one of many radical improvements over POW and POS"
X Link 2023-09-04T00:37Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@AnakniZuna714 @SenseSkeptical @SaitoOfficial @richard_parris This is not a claim. It is a factual description of how ATR works. If you cannot spend your tokens because your transactions are being censored they necessarily hit the ATR rebroadcast point and get issued a payout"
X Link 2023-09-04T14:34Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@TibsJj @undeadcat1or0 you're approaching the problem from an unsolvable angle - manufacturer of the device that generates the hash from bio-data is trusted-third party: only way to eliminate sybil attacks is to make them quantifiably expensive. afaik only one known solution"
X Link 2023-09-05T07:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"Why the fuck would you contact Saito and try to pitch us on marketing if you are working on a salad shitcoin with literally every economic problem it is possible to have"
X Link 2023-09-10T07:36Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@Crypt0xPaladin not remotely a priority we'll set one up at some point if the AnySwap / Multichain problems are not resolved"
X Link 2023-09-11T03:51Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Crypt0xPaladin no Saito does not claim to be "basically mainnet" it's useful for some things today and less useful for others the roadmap is on the site and explains what we are working on in what order"
X Link 2023-09-11T04:20Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@Crypt0xPaladin opinions don't mean much show me the devs we should be paying i want to see the apps you think we can buy and how"
X Link 2023-09-11T04:26Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC saito viewpoint is that the two classes of solutions are: market vs. state state ( governance ) solutions require closed sets of voters. in crypto this translates into DAOs and validators. limited regulated voting 51% attacks etc"
X Link 2023-09-11T05:58Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@OfficialESC markets solutions do not limit who can vote so are properly permissionless but require there to be no way for voters to "extract value" (or market fails) i.e. free market incentivizes people to "vote" on prices if it shifts the market towards a point of greater efficiency"
X Link 2023-09-11T06:00Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@OfficialESC POW is market solution but fails if unfunded activities are not provided by volunteers. cost-of-attack fails at 51%. POS reverts to 1980s governance solutions. cannot prevent voters colluding to extract value. cost-of-attack also fails 51%. Saito is the proper market solution"
X Link 2023-09-11T06:03Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@JackJWard @DhruvKo77065333 @MukkingAbout @Cointelegraph @VitalikButerin @SaitoOfficial at least he isn't complaining about lack of marketing"
X Link 2023-09-11T14:22Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"inflation is a tax on hodlers Saito pays hodlers fixing the economics gives users a much better experience and creates superior tokenomics"
X Link 2023-09-11T15:27Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"Love that RedSquare is getting Inception spam. https://saito.io/redsquare/tweet_id=ee176e92b693426b189362bbe09051fb5f6b5ca9c1f3410cd36251c66686677c6985fd9a28e4a5fb9b1ca44bc820b6c054c7e7c0e10dc5e41b43db63600281ca https://saito.io/redsquare/tweet_id=ee176e92b693426b189362bbe09051fb5f6b5ca9c1f3410cd36251c66686677c6985fd9a28e4a5fb9b1ca44bc820b6c054c7e7c0e10dc5e41b43db63600281ca"
X Link 2023-09-12T05:33Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@Asoka6699 @SaitoOfficial @JackJWard @MukkingAbout @ThetaWillMoon @holdsaito @Saitodler @tatawirlandi @0xG24 @VajraTalon @The_Juggrnaut @bragoatski Bit off-topic but Palpatine's seduction of Anakin takes place in front of a water ballet. Lucas using the same symbolism as Nolan: water as subconscious and death. It's practically Saito Canon. :)"
X Link 2023-09-12T14:20Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"wild guess that this decentralized version is going to have a token that is monetized by Infura itself"
X Link 2023-09-12T17:58Z [----] followers, [----] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @brickblockcube @0xluminous this is simply not true. work it out with real examples. if a sybil controls the first hop it has a 100% chance of receiving the routing payout. adding extra hops does not increase its chance of payout"
X Link 2023-09-13T13:14Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @brickblockcube @0xluminous so you can by-definition only sybil a transaction if you are second-hop or deeper recipient. and the honest node in the first hop position will have a 50%+ chance of payout which is more than the attacker can secure in any network with a finite blocksize"
X Link 2023-09-13T13:17Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @brickblockcube @0xluminous this is why solving sybilling induces transaction propagation without Saito's solution you don't share because the recipient can profit by transferring your claims of payout to them. with routing work this is more costly than the income the extra hop generates the sybiller"
X Link 2023-09-13T13:19Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @brickblockcube @0xluminous work through the math. a 1st hop node cannot increase its income adding extra hops. this is incontrovertible attacker needs to be in 2nd or deeper position for sybilling to be profitable as the attack works by transferring claims-on-payment from an earlier-hop node to itself"
X Link 2023-09-13T14:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@brickblockcube @SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous He's simply wrong A sybil produces the block with w/ 2nd hop routing work. A non-sybil produces the block faster with 1st hop routing work The probability of the sybil collecting payment is lower because the probability of their blocks being added to the chain is lower"
X Link 2023-09-14T03:07Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@brickblockcube @SenseSkeptical @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous The only way a sybil can reach parity on probability is if they burn their own money which puts their cost higher than the non-sybil. There is simply no world in which probability of getting paid is the same for a sybil as a non-sybil ceteris paribus. He hasn't done the math"
X Link 2023-09-14T03:13Z [----] followers, [---] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous don't summarize do the math the income equations on pages 2-3 show unambiguously that self-cloning is not profitable for hop [--] nodes. so any profitable sybil attack must by definition begin at hop [--] or more which by definition is +1 hop deeper than non-sybilled tx think"
X Link 2023-09-14T07:54Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous the ONLY way an attacker can increase their potential income is if adding a hop defunds someone else in the routing path so you have to start sybilling at hop [--] for any attack that hopes to be profitable and the math shows increase in income expected increase in cost for this"
X Link 2023-09-14T08:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous no that is not the argument you're deeply confused until you actually do the math i don't think you'll be able to think your way clear of whatever is confusing you"
X Link 2023-09-14T19:09Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous the income equations show: it is less profitable to sybil than not AND it is less profitable to hoard than not in other mechanisms you trade one for the other. not in Saito -- this what "information propagation without self-cloning" means as right there in the abstract"
X Link 2023-09-14T19:18Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous you can do whatever the hell you want at hop [--]. print the transaction out bake it in a cake for all anyone cares. you are less profitable if you: - add sybil hops - do not share with peers instead of imagining there is a fictitious trade-off here just do the math"
X Link 2023-09-14T19:22Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous other mechanisms incentivize nodes to do one or the other. either adding fake hops is incentivized or hoarding is incentivized. Saito incentivizes "information propagation without self-cloning" which means neither hoarding nor sybilling are profit-maximizing strategies"
X Link 2023-09-14T19:26Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous How do I increase my income adding an extra hop to a tx as a hop1 node"
X Link 2023-09-15T04:09Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous your expected/statistical profitability goes down as soon as you add that extra hop. it doesn't mean you CANNOT add an extra hop it means that you are LESS PROFITABLE if you do it"
X Link 2023-09-15T04:34Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous if you are struggling to see why take your thought experiment and make this one change: remove the extra hop in YOUR tx now imagine you sent that (unsybilled) tx to the block producer instead of the sybilled version. did your chance of getting paid go up it did"
X Link 2023-09-15T04:38Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous adding a fake sybil hop does not put "additional money" in the block so your expected income has not gone up by adding that hop. but when you remove it the block that has your transaction has a greater chance of inclusion on the longest-chain so your profitability is higher"
X Link 2023-09-15T04:48Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous no-one can stop you from adding as many fake hops as you want. the fact you CAN is irrelevant. what the solution formally achieves is making forwarding txs to peers without engage in sybilling / self-cloning the most profitable strategy. this is as true at hop1 as hop4812923"
X Link 2023-09-15T04:51Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous [---] SAITO fee in [--] transaction you are competing with me equal chances of block production so: your expected income is [--] SAITO which is 50% of [--] SAITO router payout. but u sybil to "collect more in fees" so work out your expected income show your math"
X Link 2023-09-15T08:21Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous hoarding is suboptimal. we are not talking about that though. you claim a hop-1 node that sybils "collects more money" than one that does not so you sybil and I don't same transaction and same fees I have a much greater probability of collecting payment i am more profitable"
X Link 2023-09-15T13:55Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous the math in the paper proves that: [--]. a node which sybils is less profitable than a node which does not [--]. a node which hoards is less profitable than a node which does not the formal proof has to establish BOTH which is why there is a section covering each topic"
X Link 2023-09-15T14:02Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous so: non-sybil has (100/100) units of routing work sybil has (100/150) + (50/150) so both have 100% of the routing work in their blocks and the "sum of fees" is the same in both cases so the addition of the sybil hop has not increased the payout at all"
X Link 2023-09-15T14:08Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous so the sybil is not "collecting more money" it is even collecting the same amount no the sybil has halved its ability to produce blocks its probability of getting its block onto the longest chain has gone down so its probability of payout (expected income) has decreased"
X Link 2023-09-15T14:13Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
"@SenseSkeptical @brickblockcube @MukkingAbout @SaitoOfficial @0xluminous come back to this question after we have finished discussing how routing work makes sybilling+hoarding irrational / suboptimal. the same mechanism that punishes these behaviors also punishes inefficient network configurations and promotes optimal scaling of network"
X Link 2023-09-15T14:24Z [----] followers, [--] engagements
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